The Role of Religion in the Potterverse was Magical Latin

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 186165

Carol earlier:
> >I can think of no explicitly Buddhist elements--and no reason for them to be there. By the same token, I would not look for explicitly Christian elements in a  book by a Buddhist (or, say, a Buddhist who had lost his faith or converted to Islam). That's not to say that shared or universal elements that a Christian could relate to wouldn't appear in that book, but I doubt that they would have been  intentionally placed there.
> 
> No.Limberger responds:
> All world religions share similar concepts (not necessarily the same concepts between all religions), but each religion has its own unique concepts.  In none of my posts have I denied that JKR is a Christian. <snip>  Where I disagree is the notion that JKR sat down one day and said, "I'm going to write a set of fantasy novels based upon Christianity."  <snip>

No.Limburger: 
> When an individual views an artwork (whether it is a painting, a musical composition, a written novel, etc.), the individual's mind automatically identifies similarities between the artwork and other memories already present, thus forming connections between the artwork and those memories whether those connections are valid or not.
> In other words, perception is as unique as each individual human being is unique. If an individual has a strong identification with a particular religion, there will be a tendency to identify components of an artwork in terms of that religion.  If another individual has studied multiple religions and view the same exact artwork, chances are that this individual's mind will find connections between the artwork with multiple religions. <snip>
> Any artist knows that their work will be viewed in a myriad of different ways when made public and
> is beyond the control of the artist.  In the case of JKR and her artwork
> called Harry Potter,
> I find no convincing evidence to suggest that this artwork was intended for
> a Christian-only
> audience.  This is based upon the scant number of direct references to
> Christian
> beliefs.  Instead, I believe JKR drew upon a myriad of sources to create the
> beautiful
> piece of art that Harry Potter is.  How any one person chooses to perceive
> that art
> is entirely up to the individual.

Carol responds:
I wonder if we're arguing (discussing) apples and oranges here. While some other posters may have argued that JKR deliberately sat down to "write a set of fantasy novels based upon Christianity,"  that's not *my* argument. I'm saying that because JKR is herself a Christian who grew up in a secular Christian country with a strongly Christian background and because her Wizarding World is set mostly in that same country, it's inevitable that Christian values will predominate. (that the British WW was in contact with Muggle Christianity in earlier centuries is evident from the Fat Friar, the paintings of the monks, and other motifs that we've already mentioned.) Certain elements of DH in particular are explicitly Christian, including the epitaphs on the gravestones and the cross that Harry places over the "grave" of Alastor Moody's magical eye.

I stated in my previous post (in a portion that you snipped) that certain values and experiences are universal and appear in all literatures (love and death being the most obvious examples) and that the reader is free to apply his own experiences and values (what Tolkien calls "applicability") in interpreting any work of literature.  And I agree that JKR drew on many cultures in depicting her WW, but she drew *primarily* on those that would be familiar to British children--not only Christianity and Greco-Roman mythology but stereotypes of wizards and witches (brooms, pointed hats, black robes or cloaks). In contrast, I see no *explicitly* Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim motifs. Nevertheless, because of shared cultural values and universals like love and death, readers from those faiths or other backgrounds, including agnosticism, secular Judaism, Native American cultures, and just about everything you can think of can relate to some aspects of Harry's experience, including his struggle to understand and accept death as part of life.

A Christian will find other themes and motifs in addition to these universals, some of which JKR has said are intentional. I agree with you that a reader brings his or her own values and experiences to the reading of any literary work and that those values and experiences inevitably affect the experience of reading and interpreting the work. I also agree that any educated writer will draw upon material from various cultures that he or she has come in contact with and, perhaps unconsciously, incorporate that material into a literary work. (Some readers will find those unconscious elements and assumptions and some won't. What's hardest to find is what a writer takes for granted because it's not explicitly stated.) No reader will find exactly what the author "intended" when he or she wrote the work. Nevertheless, we can't ignore an author's stated intentions altogether even if they don't shape our particular reading.

No one (that I know of) is denying that motifs like love, death, and self-sacrifice are important in other religions or cultures than those of Christian or nominally Christian nations. What we're saying (or I'm saying) is that the portion of the WW depicted in the HP books is a secular Christian world parallel to the secular Christian world of Muggle Britain. As Matthew Arnold wrote in "Culture and Anarchy" in 1869, the two forces that he calls Hebraism (Judeo-Christian influence) and Hellenism (Gredo-Roman influence) have shaped the Western world.

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html

That Britain from the founding of Hogwarts (and earlier) to the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries when the HP books were written was and is part of the Western world is indisputable. That Christianity was the predominant shaping force for much of that period is also indisputable.

Again, I am not denying the presence of non-Christian elements, and I am explicitly stating that many themes, motifs, events, and conflicts within the books are universal. In consequence, the books are open to various interpretations (although, of course, some interpretations are invalid in any circumstances--it can't be argued, for example, that Voldemort or Wormtail or Bellatrix is really the hero of the books). But I am also saying that the books inevitably reflect a secular Christian/Western worldview because of the time and place in which they were written. Less inevitably, they reflect an explicitly Christian worldview *in places* and through the stated intention of the author.

I am certainly not saying that the HP books are a Christian allegory. Far from it (though Harry *can be read as* a Christ figure or a Christian pilgrim). Nor am I denying that the books can be read in other ways. As Tolkien wrote, "I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." 

http://verdevivoverdechiaro.blogspot.com/2008/03/tolkien-allegory-and-applicability.html

JKR is certainly not attempting to impose her (Christian) worldview on the reader. In fact, she has carefully removed references to prayers, chapels, and worship (except that Christmas Eve service in Godric's Hollow), perhaps because she fears a backlash from the advocates of political correctness and pluralism. (Ironically, the backlash came from fundamentalist Christians, who would find much to identify with and approve of if they'd only read the books.)

In short, I'm trying to distinguish between the intention of the author (to the extent that it's conscious and stated) and the interpretation by the reader--what Tolkien calls "applicability." As for JKR knowing that her books will be read in many ways by many different people, I'm afraid that we need only read her interviews to see that she sees her own interpretation as correct. (We, however, need not necessarily agree with her. She might do well to read up on the so-called intentional fallacy. Essentially, the moment a work becomes public, its interpretation ceases to be within the author's control.)

But we, as readers, should be careful not to read in what isn't there--including specifically Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu elements. If we argue that, say, Bellatrix represents Kali, the Hindu goddess of destruction, we have a tough road ahead of us. HP is not an allegory, but any allegorical or symbolic elements within it are likely to be drawn from Western culture.

Carol, hoping that you see the points on which we agree and that the points on which we disagree are clearer now