[HPforGrownups] Re: The Role of Religion in the Potterverse was Magical Latin

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 186166

From: "mmizstorge" <lszydlowski at hotmail.com>
> Actually, in world mythology there are many deities who die and are 
> resurrected. The myth of Christ is but a fairly recent example. I can name 
> off the top of my head: Osiris, Inanna, Odin, Tammuz and Dionysos.
>
> I thought JKR's attempt to frame Harry as a Christ-like figure was 
> unsuccessful, largely because of Harry's un-Christlike inclination to 
> fling Unforgiveable Curses. Harry did not 'save' anyone nor did he exactly 
> die and the references in the text to his 'saving people thing' was to me, 
> as a character said in 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe', 
> needlessly messianic.

Shelley:
So, it wasn't clear to you that Harry was saving the WW from Voldemort's 
terror? That's not the world's sins, granted, but I thought it was very 
clear in his mind that the reign of Voldemort was tearing people's families 
apart and causing undue suffering, and that is what he was sacrificing 
himself for. The Christ-figure isn't an exact parallel, on that point I 
agree, as Harry, unlike Christ, did not know he was going to return from the 
dead. And, I think the fact that he used Unforgivable Curses was on purpose- 
Rowling from the start wanted Harry to be a believable, but flawed human 
being. He shirks off being a God, being the Chosen One, being the Wizarding 
World's hero, even from the start of his school days where he learns the 
truth. He wants to just be Harry, and that's all whom he ends up being. 
Rowling may have use the theme of Christ as the framework for setting up a 
Horcrux and explaining how he lived, and how he saved the WW from Voldemort, 
but clearly she didn't want Harry to be a Christ who was worshipped. So, I 
think those Unforgivable Curses were one final way of him sealing that image 
of "just Harry; not Jesus Christ!"

From: "mmizstorge" <lszydlowski at hotmail.com>
A protagonist doesn't need to mimic the actions of a deity in order to be 
heroic - nor does a character who dies and comes back from the dead 
necessarily convey a Christian message. Michael Moorcock's Jerry Cornelius, 
for example, died and came back from the dead (frequently!) and the message 
of the books in which he appeared was decidedly not a Christian one.

Shelley:
What you say is generally true. However, we aren't looking at a wide range 
of texts here, we are looking at Harry Potter and trying to decide if this 
is a Christian-based theme, or has references to the Christian story. I 
think it clearly is. It's not a preachy Christian message, but rather the 
Christian theme used as a framework Rowling used to tell a fictional story.

There's another aspect of Christianity I see in this series- Voldemort's 
marking of Harry from the beginning, setting up Harry to be the one to take 
out Voldemort. In the book of Genesis, Satan deceives humanity, and after 
the fall of Adam and Eve, God delivers his judgment. We all know about the 
banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden, but there is a pronouncement of 
things to come for Satan:  "So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because 
you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild 
animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of 
your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your 
offspring  and hers; he will crush  your head, and you will strike his 
heel." " (Genesis 3: vs. 14 and 15)

Now, forsaking the future generations part, I see these parallels:
- First, Satan, and Voldemort started it. Satan went to Adam and Eve to 
deceive them- it was Voldemort who used his power to kill off people. Had 
either of them keep their power to themselves but not seek to mess people 
over, ultimately they would not be taken out by the ones they messed with.
- Second, Voldemort being reduced to Vapormort resembles the "crawl on your 
belly and you will eat dust". It's just uncanny the Voldemort was reduced to 
having to inhabit only small animals. Voldemort knew he was cursed because 
of his actions. Both Satan and Voldemort were changed physically as a direct 
result of their attacks. And the whole Syltherin-Snake association, that 
Parcelmouth is passed along the generations to get to Voldemort, is 
reminiscent of the imagery of Satan the Snake/serpent.
- Third, the pronouncement that it will be Eve's seed that will be the 
demise of Satan- this I see in Rowling's use of the Prophesy- setting up 
this circle of Voldemort picking a baby to murder only to have that baby be 
the demise of Voldemort.

So, I don't take it that it is just Harry's death and comeback that makes 
this a Christian-based story- I see many other elements in it is well. No, I 
don't think this story CONVEYS a Christian message- she's not teaching or 
preaching to us, but I do clearly see the elements of the Biblical story 
taken to be a framework to tell the story of Harry and Voldemort.

Shelley