[HPforGrownups] Re: The Role of Religion in the Potterverse was Magical Latin

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 186191

> No.Limberger responds:
> While JK Rowling may have indeed been influenced
> by her personal religious beliefs in the writing of the
> Harry Potter novels, there was clearly no overt attempt
> by JKR to use the novels to proselytize.

Shelley:
I think you are arguing from a false definition here: to have a "Christ 
figure" in any piece of literature, one DOES NOT have to use the written 
work to proselytize. That's not the point of having a "Christ figure" at 
all. I think you really miss the fact that any well known story/figure can 
be used as a frame work- a familiar concept to one's readers so that you 
don't have to explain everything down to the smallest detail. You use a 
familiar cultural concept so that you have a base to start from. The readers 
"get it" because they recognize the framework. Rowling even said she didn't 
want to expose Harry as the Christ figure too soon, as it would have given 
away that ending.  Had she said that anywhere in book 5 or 6, we would have 
accurately predicted all too well the Harry-Horcrux to be killed off so that 
Voldemort could be killed, and the ending wouldn't have been nearly as 
anticipated for revealing something new.

I think all of your statistics of who isn't Christian is rather irrelevant 
to this discussion, in that 1) the Christ story isn't limited to just 
"Christians" knowing about it- frankly, I think it's gotten around the whole 
world by now (i.e., you could be a Muslim and still understand what is a 
Christ-figure in literature), and 2) the use of a Christ figure doesn't 
detract from an non-Christian's enjoyment of the story. The use of a 
Christ-figure just predicts where the ending of the story might go. 
Proselyzation has nothing to do with using a common element to build a 
story, and one's enjoyment of a story with a Christ figure in it. We are not 
talking about building a religion here, but using symbolism that is commonly 
understood.

I said you missed the point of sin/salvation in the Christian story, and I 
said that in specific reference to Harry being a Christ figure in DH, in 
particular. If you know that the point of having one's sin's removed is 
restoration and freedom, then you understand what Harry was dying for as a 
Christ figure, what he was giving back to the WW. He wasn't dying for 
anyone's sins, but the restoration of the WW back to a time when they didn't 
live in terror of one Wizard, back to a time when they were all free to have 
relationships, marry and have kids, have shops and open commerce without 
manipulation, control or bondage from Voldemort. He was dying for 
reconciliation. Rowling didn't have to explain all that post-Voldemort 
liberation, because if you understand that liberation from sin, you 
understand the JOY that would have been the WW's without Voldemort. Rowling 
then didn't have to fill in all those details for us- they would have been 
easily understood.

> No.Limberger responds:
> People who wish to identify with Harry Potter as a
> Christ-figure are as equally able to do so as those who
> do not.  To reiterate my point of view, each individual
> sees in Harry Potter what they want to see; it is
> neither right nor wrong to view Harry Potter as a
> Christ figure.

Shelley:
I think that saying that "anyone who wishes to not see Harry as a 
Christ-figure is just free to do so" is just as warped as trying to say that 
Martin Luther King Jr. was not a Civil Rights Activist. There are facts, 
clearly backed up by the Harry Potter text, by Rowling herself of intent and 
direction of her works, and I think you clearly have to ignore all those 
facts to come to any other conclusion. Are you "free" to do so? Sure, any 
idiot can ignore facts, but that doesn't make those facts go away, and nor 
will it change the majority of people all coming to the same conclusion that 
is different from that single person. The single nut job will always exist, 
denying common experience to make it something else (Elvis was really an 
alien from outer space!)- sure you can have different opinions, but that 
doesn't make those opinions supportable. I just say absolutely the 
supposition that Harry is NOT a Christ-figure is not supportable. The facts 
all align in the other direction.

Shelley