[HPforGrownups] Re: some replies which are direct but off topic

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 186199

> Magpie:
> I don't think her voice sounds particularly male or female, but in general 
> there are things in the book that are definitely a woman talking about 
> boys/girls/men/women rather than a man talking about them. Perhaps 
> especially with the romance. Though I hesitate to say that because it 
> sounds a bit too stereotyped, as if "only a woman" could have a certain 
> pov when I don't think that's really true. But still, I think a lot of the 
> general ideas (not all) sound like they come from a woman. And I did 
> sometimes get a kick out of how flat-out attractive somebody like Sirius 
> or Tom were through Harry's eyes, compared to the allegedly beautiful 
> girls like Ginny and Cho (who have nice hair).


Shelley responds:
I know I said earlier "male" if I looked only at the treatment of women in 
society and that men are the brains while women are fined to raising babies 
at home (Molly) or old spinsters teaching school (McGonagall).

Looking at your last line, I fully agree. Men are attractively decribed, 
women aren't even given features a boy would notice, like lips, hips, boobs 
and butts. Actually now, if I were to pull out only the physical 
descriptions of people, particularly ones that are supposed to be "romantic" 
or attractive or cute/pretty, I would have to undoubtedly conclude "a woman 
wrote this". She does spend a lot more time describing the physical looks of 
the guys rather than the girls. For instance, if Harry was to be a 
stereotypical guy, at least in my mind, written from a guy's perspective, I 
would image that Harry might have noticed how a robe or a shirt clung to a 
girl's large chest or described the way that robe draped over a girl's butt 
when she bent over, or how short someone's skirt was when she sat at an 
angle where her legs were facing in his direction- some stray thought like 
that- and have a momentary lapse in what he was originally thinking about, 
or have to hide his lower half so his classmates wouldn't notice. I think he 
would have noticed a girl's boobs at least once. Even when I acted as the 
driver to take a group of school kids to a science fair at a Catholic school 
where the girls wore short skirts, I got an earful from the boys of how many 
of those girls were wearing thongs!  Teenage boys really do notice those 
things. I never really thought about the full descriptions of Sirius and 
other guys compared to the girls, but clearly those boy descriptions are too 
"dreamy" and far too descriptive, and girl descriptions far too lacking, to 
really be the voice of Harry, unless Harry was to explore the attraction of 
both sexes (guys first?).

Very little is said about even Cho- you think he would have noticed all the 
details in her face (dimples, the way her eyes looked) or details in her 
body (small chested, big chested, full hips, nice rounded or really tight 
butt?), but we don't hear about these descriptions, I think in part because 
Rowling as a woman hasn't thought about what sexy parts of a woman would 
attract her if she really was a teenage boy and looking. Certainly, with 
that many kids in the school spread across those grades in a crowded hallway 
between classes, he would have bumped against a girl and been accidentally 
touching her breasts (the setup that runs through my mind- short boy, taller 
girl with bigger breasts, getting pushed as a prank and accidentally getting 
a face full! I can see this set up of the kids really being mean to a size 
DD, can't help-how-large-I-am, embarrased girl who is teased a lot for it)- 
I can see that producing a momentary thought that would cause his face to 
blush, but the book is free of any of those references, even when he's 
dating Cho or Ginny. It's all about kissing (yawn, boring!) and I don't 
think it's because it's written for kids that we miss those simple 
references to Harry's sexual attraction for females. I think it's because 
Rowling is a woman and probably hasn't thought through sexual attraction for 
any female.

If I were writing a teenage boy, surely I would have him notice, not quite 
Saturday Night Live style (tips hat to Lindsey Lohan- if you haven't seen 
that skit of HP, Google it!!!), but still have him notice when a girl's 
hooters suddenly expand over the summer and make her school uniform look a 
bit tight in the chest area. That kind of guy, drop his jaw, can't think of 
anything to say for that second, or can't look her in the face because he's 
staring at her chest, or have to hide an unexpected erection, is a very 
guy-ish description to me, and one I really found to be missing in this 
series. It's like Harry was this sexless blog until suddenly Cho is crying 
and the (off-screen) kiss is "wet". I think the series would have had much 
more depth if, after a few times of kissing with Cho, Harry suddenly has a 
wet dream, complains that Cho is crying a lot when they kiss or go to get 
romantic, and THEN we hear Hermione's rant of what women are like (the depth 
of emotion women have), and it would have been in contrast to Harry's wet 
dream after only kissing a girl. Instead, Hermione's lecture follows a 
"first kiss", and it's extremely shallow how that whole relationship is 
developed and described. Even Ron's book advice about how to be sensitive to 
a woman comes off as needed for Ron, but if would have been nice if Harry 
had been a happily-adjusted-sexual-male before that point, like the twins 
were described as having- that natural charm that attracted girls, and no 
problems knowing "what" to do with it. She develops that far too shallowly, 
I think, to sound like a male writer.

But, yeah, guys, tell us how you, as a male, would have put descriptions of 
both males and females in- what things do you really notice/experience as a 
teenage boy with hormones?

Shelley