Ron WAS: Re: DH reread CH 4-5

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 186284

> > Magpie:
> > I think it's important to remember that pretty much everybody in this universe stays the same, at heart, though some people just need time to uncover who they were or wind up having to go down the wrong road to rediscover themselves. For an obvious example, I remember pre-OotP people would complain about Marauder-era fanfics that showed Peter being obviously the rat he turned out to be. Then in OotP there he is being really obviously the rat he turned out to be. But this had always been the case: when Sirius faces him in PoA he completely sees that Peter was what he was all along. Once he got the right piece of info, everything fell into place. (JKR's very fond of this sort of thing and she does it well.)
> > 
> > Neville changes superficially--he's no longer bursting into tears or getting so flustered he forgets things or blows things up. I'd say his mirror here is a bit of Draco Malfoy, who by the later books is no longer cocky and antagonistic. But in both these cases, what we're seeing is the outside of the person coming to match the inside that was there all along, not a major change in who they were. 
> 
> Montavilla47:
> I would still call that a development of character.  

Magpie:
Oh, I've got no problem calling it development. It's not like there's no change at all--and even if there wasn't change the author would still be revealing the character in a way that moved something along. I just think Ron's a case that shows sometimes the fact that the more things change etc. works better than others. Especially if she's finding different situations in which to have the person do their thing in, if that makes sense.

I once wrote something about how the characters were like chess pieces, defined by 3 major things: the details of the way they were carved, their position on the board, and the move they could make. Some characters have more emphasis on one than the other.

Montavilla:
And yes, it's satisfying with
> Neville because we know that the seeds of what he became were there at the 
> beginning.  But, if say, Neville had faced the Snape/boggart and then had to 
> overcome his fear of Snape *again* in GoF and *again* in OotP, HBP, and DH, 
> I think that would have gotten really annoying.

Magpie:
Right, I agree. We see Neville triumph more than once--at the MoM, in PS/SS, in DH, in HBP, but it doesn't feel like Ron. Maybe at least partly because with Ron there's always so much emphasis on the fall before the triumph. Neville is a pretty steadfast guy who doesn't complain. Even when he's freaking out in Snape's class it's more of an involuntary physical reaction. With Ron people aren't frustrated that he can't play Quidditch but that they know how he's going to react to that.

Montavilla:
> I don't even know what to say about Draco, except that he seemed to 
> evolve until DH, when he just melted away, like the Wicked Witch of the
> West. 

Magpie:
Yes, I still feel like I bumped my head on the ceiling--hard--with that character. I know there are probably plenty of real life people who are stunted in similar ways but it still feels like she accidentally put in far too much interesting stuff in HBP. 
 
> Magpie:
> > Ron we know better than Neville, so like Hermione there really are no surprises and we've already memorized his patterns. His interaction with Hermione is the same in the epilogue as it is in earlier books. I've no doubt he continues to have periodic blow ups, just as I have no doubt Ginny and Hermione's little spat in HBP is a foreshadowing of sister-in-law spats to come. It's just more annoying sometimes with Ron--not, I don't think, only because people want him to develop but because it leads to the same dang story that's too easily recognized. Particularly in HBP with Quidditch, a lot of which book's plot was treading water until the plot blew up. 
> 
> Montavilla47:
> I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "develop."  I have my own 
> idea of what that means, and I'm not sure we're working under the same
> definition, because, even though Neville remains the same at heart, I do think
> that the matching of his outsides to his insides does constitute a development
> in his character.

Magpie:
In that paragraph instead of development I really should have said "grow" or "learn." Neville grows, seeming to reach his potential. Ron seems more defined by the thing that gets in his way and keeps him from reaching his potential. With practice, Neville gets over his fears and is just brave. With Ron, well, we get something like the Quiddtich story. Sure a real person could easily get nervous all over again the next year, but in a work of fiction you sort of feel like...what was the point of that payoff last year? It didn't go beyond Ron having a nice moment he could be comically boastful about. Then he ran out of whatever good feelings he got from it and was back again to the beginning. 

Montavilla: 
> When I look at the Ron in PS/SS, I would say at heart that this is a kid who
> has empathy, a sense of humor, tact, and intelligence.  I see a little bit of 
> insecurity--mainly tied to his lack of money.  I also see a realistic perspective
> of the obstacles he's going to face at Hogwarts (which is what you'd expect
> from someone who enjoys chess).  He's also a kid who willingly sacrifices 
> himself in order to help his friend Harry accomplish an important task.
> 
> Hehe.  I was going to list all the things in that paragraph that Ron *isn't*
> in DH, but I realized it was everything--except the insecurity, which is
> no longer tied to his family's lack of money, because they're no longer 
> poor. 

Magpie:
Yes, it's like that part of his personality takes over everything else. A lot of the other things seem to get eaten away by it. And it's not like it doesn't make sense from a personality perspective, but it's just depressing. Ron starts out as the kid who feels overlooked in his big family, the one kid who has no special talents. But he hooks up at school with two other kids that put him in the same position, where he's defined as the non-special one. And he just winds up letting them be all those things. Hermione gets most of them--she's the one with empathy (even though I think that's not true at all, but she certainly manages to sell it to the point where Ron's rewarded for changing a position on house elves he never changed), the one with tact. Ron's sense of humor sometimes just gets derided. 

I remember someone once said they thought he suffered from comic character syndrome, where comic sidekicks wind up getting stupider for laughs. His only way of dealing with his "also ran" personality is to accept it, so he's kind of stuck as the same person who apparently desires to be impressive but easily feels outclassed and gives up trying.
 
> Montavilla47:
> Um.  Yeah.  I agree.  I think I prefer the fanfic version where he becomes 
> Dumbledore and goes back in time.  Or where he opens the first flying car 
> dealership in the wizarding world and becomes a millionaire.

Magpie:
I've read some great fanfics that take Ron different places in the future and a lot of them start with having Ron sever himself from Harry and Hermione--not in a complete way; he's still friends with them. But he finds his own place in the world and feels secure.

-m