Snape's Psychology: WAS: More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 187512

> zanooda:
> 
> I still think we keep blaming Snape for the wrong thing here. We keep saying he didn't ask DD to save James and Harry together with Lily. Is it true though? Snape came to DD with a warning and a request. However, we don't know what that request was, because Snape simply didn't get to it, as DD interrupted him with questions. 

Alla:

So I figured let me go ahead and reread that scene to make sure that it did not transform in my head in something it is not and heck, who knows maybe I am indeed keep blaming Snape for the wrong thing?

Nope, reread, and even more convinced that I am blaming dear Snape for exact thing he deserves to be blamed for, namely not asking Dumbledore to keep James and Harry safe, till Dumbledore basically forces him to that is. IMO of course. It is true that Dumbledore interrupts him with questions, but only untill certain point, no?


Zanooda:
> How do we know what exactly Snape intended to ask? How do we know he would have said "save Lily, don't mind her husband and son"? I suppose he could have, but how can we be sure if we are not Legilimenses :-)?

Alla:

Eh because he says it? Here is the canon, I am not typing the whole thing here, only part relevant to my argument, you said it yourself you reread it many times and anybody can go and reread the rest of the scene if needed.

"You disgust me," said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little.
"You do not care, then, about the deaths of her husband and child? They can die, as long as you have what you want?"
Snape said nothing, but merely looked up at Dumbledore.
"Hide them all, then," he croaked. "Keep her - them - safe. Please." - p.543-544, Brit.ed.


Zanooda:
> Note that DD doesn't exactly blame Snape for asking him to save only Lily. How can he, if Snape didn't ask anything at all yet? IMO, DD blames Snape for asking LV to spare only Lily, not James and Harry as well, which is an unfair and unreasonable demand. To ask LV such a thing would have been a suicide (although a "fine gesture", to use Snape's own words :-)), and what good would it have done? They would have been all dead, Snape as well as the Potters. 
> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I know that Snape didn't care about James and Harry, but we can't blame him for not asking DD to protect them, because we can't prove that he didn't intend to ask. I reread this dialogue many times, and I still can't see anything showing that Snape only asked to save Lily. This is just my opinion that I've wanted to express for quite some time :-).

Alla:

Two things in the paragraph above make me 100% convinced that Snape intended to ask Dumbledore only about saving Lily.

Sure, I can see how you interpret Dumbledore blaming Snape to asking LV to spare onlt Lily.

What I do not see is how you can interpret Snape's  *response* as anything but him intending to ask Dumbledore as well only for Lily's life.

Snape says after Dumbledore expressing his disgust "hide them all, then". It is this *then* that tells me that had Dumbledore not expressed his disgust and was more agreeable with Snape asking for Lily only that Snape would have asked for her life too. Then to me is an afterthought.

And second thing what he says is "keep her - them - safe". Again, first out of his mouth is what he truly wanted to ask and as after thought, to get Dumbledore to be more agreeable is "them".

JMO,

Alla