Snape's Psychology: WAS: More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 187549

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Montavilla47:
> > 
> > I agree with your post entirely, including the tiny bit of 
> > reservation.  And, reading this last bit reminded me of 
> > something.
> > 
> > We keep focusing on Snape not asking Dumbledore to 
> > protect James and Harry as if that's remarkable.  It's really
> > not.  How many people would seek out the general of an
> > opposing army to save someone they disliked or felt 
> > indifferent about?
> > 
> > What is remarkable about Snape's actions is that he
> > for anybody at all to be spared.
> >
> 
> Alla:
> I agree and disagree at the same time. Of course it is not remarkable for the member of the terrorist gang to not ask to help to keep the lives of his enemies. But it starts become significant (not sure if remarkable is the right word for me to describe how I feel) when we start talking about Snape's change of heart and then it becomes incredibly significant to me. Because if we want to keep talking about Snape as member of Voldie's gang, sure why would any of those bastards would want to save their enemies? But if one wants to argue that Snape is not one of them anymore, that he does want to be different then from the person who is NOT DE, from him I expect to yeah, be at least a tiny bit sorry and remorseful that he put on danger not only woman he loves, but an innocent guy and a little baby. Thus to me Snape who comes to ask for Lily's life only (I remain convinced that it is a right description of that scene) does not do a remarkable thing, just as Narcissa who lies about Harry because she wants to see her son does not do a remarkable thing. Again, please do not get me wrong, I think it is a good thing that people are able to love and sacrifice for loved ones, it shows to me that they are not psychopaths, etc. I however do not believe that for the member of gang of criminals to do something for loved one shows that they did a remarkable thing necessarily.
> 
> Hm, I have a feeling that I may get a certain question  based on what I described.
> 
> Anyway if Snape would have asked for the lives of his enemies to be spared, yes that I would have found truly remarkable.

Montavilla47:
Yes, I agree.  That would have been truly remarkable.
And suicidal, if he had asked Voldemort!  And, pretty
stupid, since it's like telling Bush that Osama Bin Laden
is determined to strike within the U.S., while simultaneously
begging him to let Bin Laden go on his merry way.

Obviously, of course, Harry wasn't Bin Laden.  He was,
as you say, an innocent baby.  But, if you knew for certain
that he was going to kill your leader when he grew up, 
would you be begging the leader to let him do just that?

Alla: 
> But as I said upthread, I think he comes to that point by saving Lupin. Ironically I now realize that for all Dumbledore's despicable behavior (IMO) in that scene, I think I should credit him a lot for forcing Snape in his service, otherwise he would not have changed at all IMO.

Montavilla47:
I have to say that I agree with you here.  The point isn't
that Snape's heart suddenly grew three times (the like
Grinch's) when he realized Voldemort threatened someone
he loved.  Nor does Narcissa's.  

But it's a start.  And his love for Lily leads to his service with
Dumbledore, which leads him to assume (without internalizing
it) the protection of said innocent baby.  Of course, the 
innocent baby turns out to be a cheeky eleven-year-old boy and
it all turns out to be even harder than it seemed when 
Dumbledore made the request, but Snape does it anyway.  

And, eventually, he does internalize it.