[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore and the psychic magic

[Bart Lidofsky]

No: HPFGUIDX 187586

Mike:
> I followed you right up till here. I'm not getting why a prophecy invalidates itself because it creates new information? What if the expected participants in the prophecy aren't the ones to receive the new information? Voldemort only knew part of the prophecy, and Harry participated in most of the prophecy without knowing it at all. Pettigrew, Snape, Black and Lupin knew nothing of Sibyll's second, only Harry heard it and he didn't know what was going on. See where I'm going here?
>   

Bart:
    Well, Harry got it, and chose not to act on it. Choice was still 
active. Did you notice in, I think it was HBP, when Cooking Sherry is 
reading cards, gets it dead right, and then chooses to ignore it?

Mike:
> I agree with you that prophecies seem to be always inexact, which I suppose is one reason why those in that business can usually claimed them to be fulfilled. But isn't self-fulfilling part of the phenomena of prophesies? In most literature, isn't self-fulfillment part of what the prophecy counts on? I know Oedipus was not, but most of them do use that element, imho.
>   

Bart:
    That's the Greek point of view; Rowling writes from more of a 
Judeo-Christian point of view, in sort of a High Anglican way. Consider 
the story of Jonah; prophecy, in this tradition, exists to give people 
the opportunity to do the right thing. And it doesn't matter what the 
consequences are, because if you don't do the right thing, the 
consequences are worse.


>> Bart:
>> But Dumbledore considers the power to be inspirational rather
>> than prescriptive.  Prophecies don't have any power to make
>> themselves come true, though some people believe they do and
>> act accordingly. No event becomes inevitable simply because
>> it was magically foretold, in Dumbledore's opinion, but it may
>> become inevitable because people disregard their other options,
>> whether in response to a prophecy or not.
>>     
>
> Mike:
> But isn't that the same thing as saying that Dumbledore doesn't believe in prophecies? I'll try to explain my thinking here; if prophecies are worded vaguely, which they all usually are, and if Dumbledore believes they are only inspirational, which would require the participants to be aware of the prophecy for it to provide any inspiration, well,... it seems that prophecies are useless utterances to Dumbledore. They have no power, they aren't very specific, and they can be thwarted by the expected participants if they simply ignore them.
>   

Bart:
    Consider the future to be a constantly changing tapestry. Choice is 
what does the changing. The prophecy is a photograph of the future at 
the moment of the prophecy; it says what would have happened if the 
prophecy had not been made. It may still happen, or there is an 
opportunity to change it. If you believe in predestination, then you 
believe you can't change it. If you believe in choice, then you believe 
you can, if you wish.

    Bart


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