Two Plot Problems

[mcrudele78]

No: HPFGUIDX 187638

> In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187621

> Carol wrote:
>  As for all the problems involved in Lupin's saying that
> Sectumsempra was Snape's signature spell when he didn't even
> know that Snape was a DE,

Mike:
Please refresh my memory, where did we find out that Lupin didn't know Snape was a DE? Obviously it has to be before GoF, because we all knew by the end of GoF that Snape was a former DE with the dark mark on his forearm. 


> Carol added:
> I'm not sure about the amount of control [over Sectumsempra];


> > Then in 187634, Carol added:
> > As I've said before, I don't think it was the same spell. The
> > cutting hex that Teen!Severus uses in OoP does no great damage
> > and was certainly not Dark Magic beyond the power of Madam
> > Pomfrey (or even, possibly, James himself) to heal.

Mike:
One thing that had been emphasized over and over again was that magic, and especially dark magic, not only requires an ability but also is dependent upon intent, desire, magical strength of the caster, etc. Look at all the Crucios and all the different effects they had. Remember what Crouch!Moody said about AKs. Compare Harry's Imperios in DH to Draco/someones Imperios of Madam Rosemerta, or Voldemort's many Imperious victims. Even look at the different Stupefy and Petrificus Totalus results based on who cast them and when.

To me, it's abundently clear that the same spell can result in vastly different outcomes depending on who cast it, what their intent was, and probably how resistant the victim is through their own abilities. IOW, I don't see why that cutting spell in SWM couldn't have been Sectumsempra, or as Alla suggests, one of the precursors to Sectumsempra that was scratched out and replaced by a new incantation. 

And if Molly can stop the bleeding from the adult, magically powerful Snape's spell, I don't think it much of a stretch to think that Madam Pomfrey could cure the same spell cast by a 16 year old Severus. 


> > Continuing in 187634, Carol added:

> We don't hear any incantation, either; <snip>
> But Severus could not have used it at school without being
> expelled, <snip>

Mike:
I don't think not hearing any incantation is a good indicator. First off, a lot of battles are described as flashes of light, we aren't told what was or wasn't said out loud. We didn't even hear what Draco was trying to cast in the bathroom until he started his Crucio. I don't think JKR was too concerned about making sure we heard what spell was cast in all cases.

Second, do you remember the MoM battle where the DE slashed Hermione with a spell? Harry mentioned that it was the same spell he used earlier but was probably not as powerful because he couldn't speak the incantation out loud. Seems there verbal spells that *can* be used non-verbally, but to a lesser affect. That might fit this case for this being a non-verbal Sectumsempra that wasn't as powerful.

Third, if it was a Sectumsempra, you don't think JKR was going to give up who the HBP was back in OOTP, do ya?

As to expelled; if Sev had control over the power, which I think he did, he could have used it to create just the kind of cut that James got and not get expelled. 



> > Carol:
> > We're just dealing with yet another inconsistency here. 


> Alla:
> 
> Not in my opinion, I think it is extremely consistent, I just do not see why in such important scene JKR would use a spell which has no meaning so to speak, while on the other hand as foreshadowing to Sectumsempra makes a lot of sense to me. IMO of course.

Mike:
Me too. :) I think that we don't give JKR enough credit for clever foreshadowing, as opposed to clumsy foreshadowing that gives away the house. JKR's ability to insert little and big items into one book only to have them show up again a book or three later was, I think, one of her great attributes. I agree with Alla, it makes no sense to throw in a meaningless curse/hex and hide it's name. And if we had heard the name of the hex, we would have gotten TMI too soon.