Prophecy / Umbridge's quill and Harry's fist / Dementors / Sectumsempra

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 187664

catlady_de_los_angeles:

> Carol wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187595>:
> 
> << How would anyone except the students (only two that we know of, Harry and Lee Jordan) know about the quill that used their own blood to write lines? >>
> 
catlady_de_los_angeles:
> <snip>... it seems to me that Lee Jordan is more outgoing and less secretive than Harry. Even if he and the Twins keep some secrets from each other, I don't know a reason why he wouldn't tell Fred and George, and maybe a number of lesser friends, about Umbridge's quill. Maybe he even told his parents during the summer holiday. Word could have gotten around widely starting with Lee. Is it possible that Arthur could have told Molly about the widespread gossip at the Ministry about Scrimgeour having kept Umbridge on despite what Lee Jordan's parents said she'd done to their son, or would Molly inevitably have revealed to her kids, Harry, and the readers that she knew about it?

Montavilla47:
While it's possible that these things could have happened, I think it's a bit
complicated and relies on a lot of extra-canonical inference.

For one thing, the culture at Hogwarts seems to be that kids *don't* tell
their parents what is going on at school, especially in Gryffindor.  The only
thing that Hermione tells her parents about is that she was made prefect.
(Although, maybe she mentions having told them about Harry.  I forget.)

The only other person Harry mentions ever writing to his family is Percy--
and that's only because Ginny was kidnapped by the Heir of Slytherin.  

Now, there are two other students who presumably communicated with
their parents about Hogwarts matters.  These are Marietta (who told her
mother about the D.A.), and Montague, whose parent were observed 
striding up to the school to find out about their son.  Perhaps Katie's
parents were notified as well, when she went to St. Mungo's.  Or...
maybe not.

But the description of Montague's parents makes it seem to me as 
though having parents come to the school is a breakdown in the 
normal state of things--a state in which parents are blissfully 
ignorant of their children's crimes and punishments.


> Carol wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187631>:
> 
> << the raised fist is just one more instance of the miscommunication motif that appears in all the books >>

catlady_de_los_angeles:
> It never occurred to me as a reader that Scrimgeour didn't correctly understand Harry's fist, until you said so. We need Rowling to tell us (if we can believe her answer) what she intended. If she intended that Scrimgeour understood, as does the reader, that Harry's fist meant: "Remember what Umbridge did to me", then we allow as how Scrimgeour somehow knew about Umbridge's quill and kept her on anyway. I don't think it's so hard to believe that word got around starting from Lee Jordan. 
> 
> If she intended Harry raising his fist to Scrimgeour to be yet another miscommunication, should she have put in something somewhere to make it clear that Scrimgeour didn't understand? Was she counting on perceptive readers and literary scholars to figure it out and tell the rest of us? Has anyone but you published this interpretation?

Montavilla47:
I don't know if I ever published that interpretation, but mine was
very similar to Carol's.  I thought that Scrimgeour would have no
idea what Harry was talking about, because of course he'd never 
have brought Umbridge up if he thought Harry disliked her, and that
he assumed Harry was just expressing general defiance and contempt.

Another bit of support for that interpretation comes from the end of 
POA, when Dumbledore assures Harry that telling the truth about 
Sirius's innocence would be useless, since no one (but him) would 
ever believe the word of a thirteen-year-old.

How convenient that is for Dumbledore!  Instead of having to 
reason with Fudge about Sirius, he can simply send Harry and 
Hermione out in the fog of Dementors to rescue him and then
send him off to foreign parts.  No messy fights with Harry's legal
guardian for Dumbledore.

And, way to insure that Harry never trusts another adult
with inconvenient information.