Choices/Snape as abuser, SKIP if not interested WAS :Re: CHAPTER

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188585



> > Alla,
> > 
> > who does not attach any significance whatsoever to the fact that Snape's abuse is less than Dursleys' and for whom a character who is engages in any degree of abuse is quite a disgusting one.
> > 
> > P.S.
> > I wonder why the character who abuses *less* is supposed to get a cookie because his behavior is less disgusting by comparison with more vile character? I know another character whom I think of as much more despicable abuser  than Snape – Umbridge. But you know, I measure Snape's actions by what *he did*, not how many LESS despicable things he committed. Just imagine that we would not have Umbridge and Dursleys in the story for a second. If there is nothing to compare Snape's actions to are they better somehow? Not to me definitely not.
> > 
> 
> Julie:
> 
> Snape's actions are what they are, irrespective of how 
> they compare to the actions of others. Not better or worse.
> As you say, his behavior is less disgusting than the more
> vile characters.

Alla:

Yes, I agree, but then you seem to compare him with other characters below anyway. I do not understand, but please read on. Actually before you read on, I should clarify that I misspoke in the last paragraph of the previous post. I should have asked if we had no Dursleys or Umbridge in the story would you consider Snape's actions WORSE than what you think of them now.

Julie:
>Which assumes (correctly, I'd say) that
> he is less vile a person and has more good in him than 
> those more vile characters. 


Alla:

No, see it does not assume any such thing, not for me. If I call the character's behavior less disgusting than other characters, it is still possible for me to decide that BOTH characters' behavior has a very long way to go before I consider them to be a behavior a good person.

For example, to use a RL example, say somebody deliberately killed a person (not at war, not during self defense, not a crime of passion), just deliberately planned a murder say to take this person's money. I would be disgusted by such a person, but say he or she never did it again. Enters a person who did such thing many many times. Would I be disgusted by such person ten times more? Of course! But I would never call any of those people good ones.

Oh and again, to let it out of the way, sure I know Voldemort is supposed to be a monster, really I get that and as I said before I know that on the intellectual level I am supposed to hate it the most. She just for the most part did not convince me (I know I wrote about it before, but it is relevant here), I mean there are some good horror scenes, but he is just too cartoonish for me, same with Greyback and most other DE. I know Snape is not a DE, he is just an everyday evil disgusting person, on the right side, to me of course.

Julie:
> I also don't think anyone is giving Snape a cookie because
> of his unfairness and verbal abuse toward Harry.

Alla:

Hm, good to know :-)

Julie:
>In fact,
> he gets the cookie for protecting Harry, for making a promise
> that he keeps right to the end of his life, for risking that
> life and ultimately dying to keep said promise, and for 
> becoming someone who "saves those he can" even though such
> action doesn't directly serve honoring his specific promise.
> I'll even take the cookie back from Snape for never getting
> over his bitterness and taking it out on children, especially
> Harry. So Snape is cookie-less.

Alla:

Well, again, yes of course he became a person who learned that human life is valuable, I know that. It is just to me that does not cancel out how he treated a person whose life he agreed to protect.

Julie: 
> And now the comparison. The Dursley's never get a cookie.
> They don't do anything positive for Harry, or for anyone 
> beyond themselves and their immediate family. <SNIP of giving out cookies> For me comparison doesn't change anything. I still see 
> Snape's good actions as essentially cancelling out (or
> atoning for) his bad actions. I don't see that for the
> others I've listed, most who had few if any good actions
> to note.


Alla:

See, for me Snape's service against Voldemort may cancel him being a DE, but I do not see anything he did as cancelling out how he treated Harry and Neville, it is all there staring me in the face and not mitigated by anything. In fact as I am sure I mentioned before to me the fact that he made a promise makes it worse, I wish Dumbledore never made him do it, but as far as I am concerned if Snape had any shred of decency he would have treated Harry differently.

JMO,

Alla