CHAPTER DISCUSSION: PS/SS 15, The Forbidden Forest

[bboyminn]

No: HPFGUIDX 188621



---  "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
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> ...
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> CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone/ Philosopher's Stone, Chapter Fifteen, The Forbidden Forest
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> Questions:
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> 1) McGonagall is very angry. Is her anger justified? Do you think she recalls a similar situation between James and Severus?
> 

bboyminn:

Well, ZaraG suggested something I never thought of before, and
that was that she knew Lupin was a werewolf, and /that/ made
it even more dangerous for anyone to be wandering about late
at might. Though this is Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, and
Lupin isn't into the picture yet. 

However, I always suspected that Dumbledore had warned her that
things could get dangerous now that Harry was at Hogwarts. We
know Dumbledore suspected something was going on, or he wouldn't
have convinced Flamel to move the Philosopher's Stone. Dumbledore
seems to know a lot of things that he doesn't confide in Harry
and therefore doesn't confide in the reader. But he clearly 
knew that dark times were upon them. Though the specific 
nature of the threat was probably not known.

So, I think McGonnagall's warning of being out in times like
this, is a reflection of either statements or worry from 
Dumbledore. And as we later see, McGonnagall is fully justified
in her concern about dangers in time like this.


> 2) How much time passes after Harry and Hermione are caught before the detention in the forest is served? Why the delay?
> 

bboyminn:

I don't think much time passed, though I really should go 
re-read that section. I would say a week or less. detentions
are rarely delayed beyond the week in which they occur. I suspect
the delay was nothing more than McGonnagall deciding on a
appropriate detention for them all. 


> 3) What do you think of Hagrid's attitude about the punishment?
> 

bboyminn:

Are you referring to Hagrid's attitude toward Draco - do it or
get out? 

I think Hagrid understands that this little venture into the
woods is not going to be a stroll in the park. And I think
Draco is justifiable scared. And I suspect Harry wasn't feeling
all the brave either, but he was resigned to his fate. Whereas,
besides being scared, Draco felt such menial tasks were beneath
him. 

Harry is used to hard work, whereas Draco is used to being
waited on hand and foot. So Harry, scared as he might have
been, was resigned to the hard task ahead.


> 4) What do you think of this punishment? How does it compare to the punishment Headmaster Snape will give in DH?
> 

bboyminn:

I never thought any punishments were consistent. Only, what,
5 points each for tackling a full grown mountain troll, and in
a sense, saving the school. Yet, minus 50 points each for being
out of bed.

Points awards and docking never seem that high. Usually 5 or
10 point here or there. But I think part of the minus 50 points
is that McGonnagall seemed to think Harry had done this as a
big joke. That he lured Draco out to get him into trouble, and
that innocent Neville had gotten caught up in it. I think it
is the 'joke' aspect that is making her furious. 

But, that doesn't explain why they were all out and about. If
McGonnagall's stated suspicions of Harry were true, then why
was Harry out? Why didn't Harry just stay in the Dorm and leave 
Draco to get into trouble? While not unfathomable, there are a
few details that beg further explanation. 

When you refer to Snape and DH, I assume you mean Ginny being
give detention with Hagrid again. I suspect Snape is trying
to punish the students sufficiently that the Garrows wouldn't 
suspect, yet to also shield them from the Garrow's Cruciatus
curse as punishment. 

So, it had to be a punishment that would keep them safe, but
at the same time seem bad in the eyes of the Garrows. 


> 5) Who is the cloaked figure drinking unicorn blood? Is it Quirrell!Mort or only Voldemort?
> 

bboyminn:

This has always confused me. We know it was Voldemort in /some/
form, but what form? Was it some apparition or semi-tangible
form of Voldemort on his own? Was it Quirrel drinking the blood
for Voldemort? Was it Quirrel bending over backwards and letting
Voldemort drink the blood himself? 

I think else where in this thread Geof quoted a later section of
the book that indicates it was Quirrel drinking the blood himself
and thereby transferring the effects of the blood to Voldemort
who was possessing him. 

Persumably, since Voldemort was in Quirrel, what strengthened 
Quirrel strengthened Voldemort. But I don't think that is 
consistent with the story. It doesn't seem as if Quirrel was 
being strenthened. More so, that grandually Quirrel was being
weakened by carrying Voldemort around. 

Perhaps, as a separate issue, Voldemort was somehow not only
taking strength from the Unicorn Blood, but also drawing
strength from Quirrel faster than Quirrel's body could replenish
it. 


> 6) Firenze seems to know who the cloaked figure is. Do you think Dumbledore knows that Voldemort is in the forest? Does Dumbledore know Voldemort is in the castle?
> 

bboyminn:

For what ever reasons Dumbledore has, which he never reveals,
I think Dumbledore is well aware that now that Harry has 
rejoined the wizard world, that Harry and by extension the
wizard world itself is in more danger than ever. Though I
don't think he quite knows how that danger will manifest itself.

It seems that he and Snape have concluded that it is Quirrel
that is trying to steal the stone, and that likely Quirrel is
doing it on Voldemort's behalf. But how and why Quirrel and
Voldemort are in contact, is not clear. And, yet there is 
still the nagging suspicion that Quirrel could be just a 
greedy bastard acting on his own. The truth of their assumptions
is only proven when Harry finally confront Quirrel and by 
extension Voldemort. 

As to Firenze, I think he knows more than he is telling. I also
think that they have been reading the signs both on the earth 
and in the sky. And, they have probably had conversations with
Dumbledore. So, I don't think it is that much of a stretch for
Firenze to reach the conclusion he has clearly reached. What
I wonder is, to what extent has he passed his thought and 
conclusions to Dumbledore? 


> 7) Gryffindor House was very angry with Harry, Hermione and Neville for losing so many points. Just a bit of speculation in your opinion--what was Slytherin House's response to Draco's losing 50 points?
> 

bboyminn:

I'm sure they weren't happy, but I also suspect the felt that
Draco was railroaded. That he had unfairly been caught up in 
one of Potter's schemes. But notice, that didn't put them that
far behind, they were still in the lead, and still in running
for the Quiditch and House Cups.

So, yes, a certain anger, but more at being duped than at 
actually losing the points which didn't hurt them that much.  


> 8) Why did Dumbledore return the Invisibility Cloak to Harry? Did the events in the forest play a part?
> 

bboyminn:

Never thought about it from that angle before. I suspect the 
adventure in the forest did play a part. But I also think it
was a combination of seeing that Harry was extraordinary, and
that he didn't shy away for adventure or danger, and consequently
was going to need all the help he could get.

But, I think Dumbledore also realized that the Cloak rightfully
belonged to Harry, and that he had no right to continue to hold
it. I'm mean knowing it was going to be an invaluable tool for
Harry didn't hurt, and I think he gave it anonymously because
he didn't feel it was right for the headmaster to so actively
aid in rule breaking. Plus, I don't think Dumbledore was
quite ready to have to explain to Harry why he had Harry's 
father's cloak. 


This has shed some interesting light on aspects of the story
I had never considered before.


Steve/bboyminn