First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 185681

> Zara:
> Based on their brief interaction in the Great Hall and Harry's 
dream 
> the night before class, I consider this debatable. That Harry was 
> not, to Snape, just any new student in his class, I would agree. 
That 
> Snape deliberately and with malicious forethought planned out a 
> scheme to make Harry miserable from Day One, I'd say we lack the 
> evidence to conclude. 

Magpie:
I don't think he needed malice forethought or a scheme. I imagine 
just *looking* at Harry sitting there looking like James Snape was 
primed whether he meant to be or not. Harry was doomed to set him off 
more easily than any other student.

Not that this is unusual for any teacher. We all have types that get 
on our nerves. Neville gets it from Snape, too, but there's no hint 
it's because Snape hated Neville's father. However in Snape's case we 
*do* know about his history with James, and Harry is right for 
feeling like Snape "hates him" that first day. Harry does not go into 
class expecting Snape to behave the way he does to him at all. He 
seems to be viewing Snape as just one more new teacher. He's 
surprised at feeling like the guy has something against him.

> Zara:
> Such a statement is meaningless if Snape never had such a belief. 
He 
> would have nothing to "get over". As I am willing to stipulate that 
> Snape is responsible as (at the least) an accessory to crimes 
> motivated by bloodism, I'm only interested in the topic in terms of 
> what was going on in Snape's head. And in such a discussion, of 
> course it matters what he believed.
> 
> I did not, I would point out, argue Snape thought Purebloods were 
> superior. Merely that he wanted to be one, for the advantages I 
> listed, that he had reason to suppose would have accrued to him if 
he 
> were one. 

Magpie:
I guess I made that leap because I've so often used as the first step 
to "Snape wasn't really a bigot" to get Snape out of that repulsive 
thing. My bad. 

Zara:> 
> For example, as a middle school student, I wanted to be a perfectly 
> coiffed and made up, regular-featured, designer-jean-clad popular 
> girl. This was not because I believed them to be superior, but 
> because I wished to enjoy such advantages as having someone to sit 
> next to in the cafeteria, and not being called by "nicknames" based 
> on Pinocchio. 

Magpie:
So let's see...you saw that they were considered superior and wanted 
that level of respect even if you didn't see what was so great about 
them. I think that's common for kids. It's basically exactly the way 
Snape felt about James, I would guess. He thought James was inferior 
to him but dammit, he got all these advantages just because he had 
all these gifts. Which Snape would surely also want because isn't it 
easier being handsome and talented and charming? 

Iow, I could easily believe that he does consider being good-looking 
better than being ugly, that being physically talented is better than 
being awkward--he just thinks James was unfairly blessed. Of course 
when it comes to blood we're not talking about any type of talent, 
just being part of a group.

Zara:

> I am inclined to believe young Snape similarly regarded his own 
(and, 
> for that matter, Lily's) prodigious magical talent as a sign of 
their 
> mutual superiority to more mediocre witches and wizards. The 
> conversation you mention, in the little thicket, is where I mostly 
> get this idea from. His reasons for stating Lily's blood does not 
> matter, include not only his affection (the sentence he would not 
> complete, I imagine, would have ended with some very flattering 
> assessment of her looks and/or personality), but also the 
observation 
> that she has "loads of magic" and anyone can see that. In addition, 
> there is his proud private name for himself, that he used on the 
book 
> in which he recorded his inventions.

Magpie:
Yeah, but I think when you're dealing with something like bigotry 
it's just more complicated. We don't know, of course, since we're not 
in Snape's head but I get from reading it that Snape had internalized 
the difference between Purebloods and everyone else even by that age. 
Even though it was hurtful to him as a Half-blood (at least he was a 
Prince, his mother may have told him). His words about Lily and he 
having "loads of magic" could imply that they are just as good as 
Purebloods, still using them as the understood top.

But of course, that's just speculation. But I don't see why his 
private name for himself shows he doesn't believe in Pureblood 
superiority, myself. It's often described as such, but to me it just 
seems like he had a complicated relationship with his blood status--
the kind of relationship Harry didn't have because to 
Harry "Pureblood" was a term of no value at all. 

I could think of a kid as just wishing he was Pureblood as really 
meaning "I wish my father was a wizard too so he understood me." But 
if the kid eventually joined the DEs? I would probably think there 
was a little more going on with that. Eventually he expressed himself 
in the most bigoted terms possible. Eventually he clung to his Wizard 
Blood as being the thing about him he did have to be proud of, and 
something he would use to put down others. 

-m