First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 185688

> Magpie wrote:
> > Does it really matter what exactly he thought made Purebloods 
> superior? He joined a bigoted group that was blatantly Pureblood-
> superiority, used slurs and ultimately thought the society needed to
> be "cleansed" of Mudbloods. (I think he was raised on the philosophy
> as well based on his hesitation about Lily being in Slytherin--and 
> that he did indeed know that blood counted for being Slytherin.) 
<snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> That's an odd philosophy for someone who married a Muggle (eileen
> Prince Snape) to teach her son. Unless, of course, she went around
> moaning, "My parents were right! I should never have married a
> Muggle.) But we don't see any indication that she says that. All we
> see is her cowering when Tobias screams at her (she must be afraid 
of
> being arrested if she uses magic against him or she wouldn't cower
> like that). Severus can see for himself that Muggles aren't much 
good
> if his father is any indication. (he isnt, but how would the boy 
know
> that?) None of those things has any bearing on how he feels about
> Muggleborns. His attraction to Lily seems to indicate that it 
doesn't
> matter. he hopes she'll be Sorted into Slytherin, too--which 
indicates
> that he hs no idea the slytherin, the House for "brains," doesn't
> accept Muggleborns. 

Magpie:
I could easily believe Eileen taught him that philosophy, especially 
if she was cowering in front of her husband. Lily says his parents 
fight, and I could easily imagine a wife throwing 'filthy Muggle' 
etc. at him and possibly telling her son that he's lucky he'll take 
after his mother's noble Prince blood. 

Of course we don't know this. We do know that Snape, who knows a lot 
about Hogwarts, wants to be a Slytherin already when he's a child, 
and I see no reason why he'd be so confused as you assume he is here. 
He can think it's a brainier house than Gryffindor without mistaking 
it for the actual House that Sorts of brains. (The Hat wouldn't make 
that mistake.) 

As for whether his friendship with Lily shows he doesn't care, sure 
he wants to be friends with Lily. But if we're talking about bigotry 
(and JKR seems to want to think she's making this book about that if 
it's a plea for tolerance) then it's perfectly common for a lonely 
kid raised around bigoted ideas to nonetheless want to be friends 
with a kid he likes even if they're not the right group. In Snape's 
case Lily was a fellow witch, which would make her seemingly the one 
special kid he knew besides himself. He likes Lily, despite already 
doing stuff like carelessly remarking that Petunia being hurt doesn't 
matter since she's "only a Muggle", and the hatred of Muggleborns 
comes from their being Muggles. 

I don't know how Snape's beliefs actually developed, but it's not 
like it's uncommon for bigoted beliefs to show up in different ways 
at different times depending on what else is going on in a person's 
life. He might have become attracted to them only when he was a 
Slytherin, though I think in the few childhood scenes we see there's 
already hints about it being an issue that wouldn't be put there if 
Snape had never heard of the stuff before. We can only speculate 
about a lot of it, of course.

> > Magpie:
> > Even if they -the Twins] have some reason to dislike him [Malcolm
> Baddock], he's an 11 year old and they're how old at this point? 
> 
> Carol:
> It's Harry's fourth year, which makes them sixteen, five years older
> than the little boy they're booing.

Magpie:
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if on my first day of 
boarding school at 11 some random 16 year old boys booed at me.

 
> Magpie:
> What could he have done that necessitated that kind of public
> humiliation his first day? I read it as Fred and George simply 
hissing
> when someone was Sorted into Slytherin the same way they'd clap if 
he
> was Sorted into Gryffindor. 
> 
> Carol:
> If that's the case, why pick on this one child? I agree that they
> can't possibly have a reason to boo or hiss him the first day, and
> they're more than old enough to know better.

Magpie:
Is it highlighted that they only pick on him? I don't have the 
passage in front of me, but I had the impression the narrator just 
happened to mention what they were doing at a particular moment, and 
at that moment they were booing because a kid who happened to be 
named Malcolm Baddock had been Sorted into Slytherin. As if it might 
as well have caught them at a moment where they were blowing up 
another salamander--iow, it's not that there's specific about this 
salamander or this experiment, it was just a snapshot that showed the 
type of thing the Twins did. I assumed they booed *all* the little 
kids who got Sorted into Slytherin--or at least often did if they 
felt like it. Not that they had anything particular against Malcolm 
Baddock. 

 
> Magpie:
> > If challenged about it I imagine they would say it was just a 
> friendly rivalry and a joke and of course the kid would understand  
that.
> 
> Carol:
> Friendly rivalry to be hissed by big teenagers who don't even know
> you? I disagree. I think that the Twins' behavior is completely out 
of
> line. 

Magpie:
So do I. I said that's what they would say if challenged about it, 
not how I would interpret it. C.S. Lewish I think talks about that 
kind of bullying that then pressures the victim to agree that it's 
funny or be accused of not having a sense of humor. I think the Twins 
are those kind of guys. (And James and Sirius probably were too.)

-m