First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185700

Magpie earlier:
> > <snip> I thought his hesitation about whether or not Lily could be
a Slytherin was a small boy knowing it was a problem but hoping it
didn't apply to Lily. <snip>
> > 
> > Carol responds:
> > But he didn't hesitate about whether Lily could be a Slytherin.
His saying to her on the Hogwarts Express that she'd better be in
Slytherin (where he hopes and expects to be Sorted) is what starts the
incident with James and Sirius. No hesitation at all. He mistakenly
believes that she can be Sorted there. After all, he also mistakenly
believes that it's the House for "brains" (which suggests that he's
never heard of Ravenclaw).
> 
> Magpie:
> I don't have the book with me, but I was referring to the moment
when she first asks him about it. By the time he's on the train he's
convinced himself she can be Sorted into Slytherin but I seem to 
remember a pause in the original conversation putting a spotlight on 
Snape having a moment of hesitation before deciding that of course his
friend could get Sorted there with him--she's awesome.
>  
> Like I said, I don't have the passage in front of me but I have a
strong memory of thinking that scene was already foreshadowing the 
tragedy of Snape's life. I thought he had already been exposed to the
idea, he just couldn't fully understand the implications yet,
especially only knowing one Muggleborn whom he loves. He ignored or
couldn't understand the danger of Slytherin values yet. 

Carol responds:

Slytherin isn't mentioned in the original conversation. I do have my
books with me, so I'll quote.

The first conversation about Hogwarts, the only one that involves
hesitation, has nothing to do with Houses. The kids are sitting by the
riverbank, discussing magic outside school. Lily says that Petunia has
told her there isn't any Hogwarts and that Severus is lying to her.

Severus answers, "It's real for us. Not for her. But we'll get the
letter, you and me?"

Lily asks, "Really," and little Severus, in his strange clothes,
suddenly "[strikes] an oddly impressive figure sprawled in front of
her, brimful of confidence in his destiny." 

"Definitely," he answers. 

She asks whether the letter will really come by owl (as he has
apparently already told her) and he explains matter-of-factly that it
normally comes that way, but you're Muggle-born, so someone from the
school will have to come and explain to your parents."

Whether Severus's mother has explained all this to him or he has
figured some of it out for himself is unclear, but there's no
indication of prejudice here that I can see, only a commonsense
explanation by a more knowledgeable friend to a novice.

This is the context in which Lily asks her question, "Does it make any
difference being a Muggle-born?"

Exactly what she means is unclear. Severus hesitates, taking time to
look over her face and hair with his eager eyes before answering, "No.
It doesn't make any difference."

Does he fully understand her question? (I don't.) Is he lying to her
for the first time? There's no indication of the behavior that JKR
usually associates with lying. 

Lily relaxes and says "Good." the narrator says that it's clear she
had been worrying--about what is not clear. Certainly not about House
prejudice, a subject that has not come up.

Severus reassures her with, "You've got loads of magic. I saw that.
All the time I was watching you."

His words suggest that she's worried about her own
performance--whether she'll do as well in school as the children who
are more familiar with the WW, kids like Sev who have at least one
Wizarding parent and know about Hogwarts and owls and wands and the
Ministry of Magic. She's not asking whether she'll be liked or how
she'll be regarded. The question is about school and, apparently,
whether a Muggle-born like herself can compete with the other kids.

The conversation shifts to other subjects like his family and Azkaban
and Dementors, at which point it's interrupted by Petunia, who
accidentally reveals that she's been spying on Lily and "that awful
boy," as she later remembers him.

The scene shifts to the two families (if Severus and his mother count
as a family; his Muggle father isn't there even though the Muggle
Evanses are). A few minutes later, Severus, who has changed to his
school robes for obvious reasons, sits down next to a crying Lily, who
has been fighting with "Tuney." He starts to say, "She's only a
Muggle" but catches himself and expresses his excitement that they're
off to Hogwarts. And then, "encourage that she had brightened a
little," he says "You'd better be in Slytherin."

Lily's response, "Slytherin?" makes it crystal clear that the subject
of Houses has not been mentioned before.

At that point, James, who has shown no interest in either of them
until that point, speaks up, making his contempt for Severus's chosen
House crystal clear. Lily, however, still has no idea what it's all about.

James raises his imaginary sword (which I take to be thw Sword of
Gryffindor--YMMV--and echoes the Sorting Hat's words (which he must
have heard from his father) about "Gryffindor, where dwell the brave
at heart!"

Severus, who has clearly been taught a different view of the Houses,
makes a "small disparaging noise" and answers James's "You got a
problem with tha?" with "Not if you'd rather be brawny than
brainy"--his idea of the Houses in a nutshell (with Ravenclaw and
Hufflepuff out of the picture for whatever reason). 

James and Sirius nicely illustrate his view of Gryffindor by acting
like little bullies, and Lily looks at them with dislike, telling
Severus that they should find another compartment, at which point
James trips Severus and Sirius (IMO) spontaneously invents the snide
epithet "Snivellus."

There is no question in Severus's mind either that he belongs in
Slytherin, which he has evidently been taught is the House of brains,
antithesis of Gryffindor, the House of brawn, or that Lily, too,
belongs there. 

The reader knows that he's mistaken, that Lily can't and won't be
Sorted there and that Ravenclaw, not Slytherin, is the House of
brains. Slytherin, whatever else it my be, is not a healthy place for
this eager, bright, knowledgeable little boy, and Sorting will
ultimately divide the two friends, setting them on paths that, as you
say, will lead to tragedy.

Carol, resting her case that Severus did *not* hesitate to expect
Lily, a Muggle-born, to be Sorted into Slytherin along with himself,
and that, to do so, he could not have known that Slytherin did not
accept Muggle-borns