Lily WAS: First lesson

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 185707

> > Montavilla47:
> <SNIP>
>  If Snape's friends were socially superior
> > (or "cool"), then Lily's friends wouldn't be wondering why she
> > would talk to him.  They might not like him.  They might despise
> > him.  But they wouldn't need to ask why she's talking to him.
> 
> Alla:
> Say you are right, I mean I disagree, but for the sake of the 
> argument say you are right and Lily is concerned about her coolness 
> with the friends and how her friendship with Snape will affect her 
> coolness.
> 
> To me, if it is true (and please, please let me stress I am not 
> **conceeding** that it is), the fact that Lily maintained said 
> friendship despite her wanting to be friends with her other friends 
> for years, speaks tons in Lily's favour. That she stood up to peer 
> pressure, etc.

Montavilla47:
Yes.  I agree that it does speak in Lily's favor that she stays 
friends with Snape despite peer pressure.  

I also don't think that being socially conscious makes a 
person bad, so if that seemed implied, than I should have
been clearer.

The way I see it, Lily would need to be socially conscious.  She's
entering a foreign culture and that's going to be difficult no 
matter who you are.  If you don't make an effort to fit in, then
you are end up sitting at the geek table.  (Not that Hogwarts
has a geek table, but you get the drift....)

> Montavilla47: 
> > Lily continues:  "You and your precious little Death Eater friends
> > --you see, you don't even deny it!  You don't even deny that's 
> > what you're all aiming to be!  You can't wait to join You-Know-
> > Who, can you?"
> > 
> > Reading this again, I'm struck by how contemptuously Lily
> > speaks about the Death Eaters here.  "Precious little
> > Death Eaters" isn't something I'd expect someone to say
> > about a terrorist group.  (I'm trying to imagine a context
> > in which a girl might tell her friend, "You and your precious
> > Al-Quaida!"  Or "You and your precious Hitler youth!") 
> > 
> > Maybe I'm looking at this through too strict an American
> > lens?  Because the way I read her tone here, the "precious
> > Death Eaters" sound like a joke at the school.  A group that's
> > a joke?  That's an unpopular group.
> 
> Alla:
> Huh? You would prefer her to talk about Death Eaters as popular 
> group? Seriously I do not understand your point. Actually I found her 
> tone to be very appropriate here. Sort of the same thing as fear of 
> the name increases fear of the person, if that makes sense?

Montavilla47:
No, I don't prefer her to speak about it either way.  I'm just making
an observation about something I find really confusing.  I keep trying
to figure out what the Future Death Eaters were and how they were 
viewed.  

Alla:
> She does speak with contempt, but to me it feels that it should be 
> addressed with contempt and maybe people will not be as scared to 
> fight them. IMO of course.

Montavilla47:
Right.  But it they are actually scary and she thinks Snape is going 
to join them, then they *are* scary.  I'm sure this is supposed to 
show how incredibly brave Lily is.  But it makes the Death Eaters
seem like--well, roughly on a par with the Marauders in terms of 
a threat.

But maybe I'm over thinking it.  After all, it's not a lot different
than Fred and George's U-No-Poo.  And I'm sure that at Hogwarts,
the students were sheltered from the worst of the war.


> Alla:
> 
> I have to reread the moment when she defends herself, but I mean, she 
> **went** with socially undesirable Neville, doesn't it mean that she 
> could assume that she could be ridiculed and still went?

Montavilla47:
Depends.  She's ridiculed by Ron, her brother and older student.  But
she might look a lot better to the girls in her own year, who don't get
to go to the dance at all.

> Montavilla47:
> > And she dates two other boys without seeming to be that interested
> > in them (given that she breaks up with them for minor faults).   
> One 
> > reason to date is to increase your social status.  
> 
> Alla:
> Or just to have fun without any thought about status?

Montavilla47:
But she doesn't seem to have much fun.  And she admits at 
the end of HBP that she more or less waiting around until
Harry noticed her.

> Montavilla47:
> > So, I wouldn't say there's *no* indication that Ginny cares about 
> > her popularity.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Again, I disagree, but I understand what you are saying.
> 
Montavilla47:
That's all I can ask!