Lily WAS: First lesson

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 185761

 
> > Annemehr, earlier:
> > 
> > Out of curiosity, what is your reason for concluding that the 
hexed
>  broom scene is occuring when Severus is nine or ten?  My 
inclination
>  is to assume it's during their first-year flying lessons, and that 
it
> was James who hexed the broom.
> 
> Carol again:
> The fact that they're alone and that Lily doesn't have a broom
> indicates that it's not the flying lesson. If she thought that James
> had hexed Severus's broom, she'd be scowling at James, not laughing.
> Besides, James at eleven wouldn't yet know how to hex a broom. He'd 
be
> more interested in showing off his flying skills if he already knew
> how to fly or learning to fly himself if he didn't. I think it's 
much
> more likely that his mother hexed her broom to keep her young son 
from
> using it (and being seen by the Muggle neighbors).
> > 

Annemehr replies:
I see.

Well, the snippet itself doesn't give us any context at all: "A girl 
was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick --
"  That's it.

I think your take is as good as mine, and vice-versa, since I don't 
think it's a safe assertion that they were alone, or that Lily didn't 
have a broom.  Nor would I think that Lily suspected James at all.

The bit about whether James could hex a broom (at the beginning of 
his first year) is more interesting.  I do think it's quite 
possible.  We know Hermione tried a few simple spells before arriving 
at Hogwarts.  James, coming from a magical family, would presumably 
have the opportunity to learn a few simple hexes as well, eh?

Or, Sirius may have taught him a thing or two.

It does fit James's personality traits of taking delight in hexing 
people, and aquiring - and using - as much magic as he can 
(Marauder's Map, becoming an animagus).  He's definitely a contrast 
to Harry, who seemed mostly to only learn a spell to save his life, 
or more importantly, to keep from flunking out of Hogwarts.

But, anyway.  I suppose, since there are no details given whatever, 
that we are just meant to guess (and, post-DH, to understand) that 
this is Lily laughing at Severus, and that this is a fairly 
significant memory for him.


 
> Carol:
> But, seriously, if I
> were alone in my room with a bunch of flies, I'd kill those flies--
or
> I'd leave.

Annemher:
If I were a witch, I think I'd stun them, and drop them back outside 
where they belong.  Wasps and mosquitos, too.  The spiders are 
welcome to stay, as well as the sweet little silverfish.


Carol:
> He has to be brooding over Lily. There's no other explanation for 
this
> uncharacteristic behavior. (We never see the adult Snape doing
> nothing, and Teen!Snape seems to be very studious before the break-
up
> with Lily. given the walls full of books and his memorization of
> textbooks later, he seems to have resumed his studiousness by the 
time
> he became a teacher if not before, which makes this period in his 
life
> stand out from the rest.)


Annemehr:
That's a good point.  He is certainly not a lazy person.  The adult 
Snape we see is very erudite, and also watchful.  So this fly-zapping 
episode gains all the more significance for being so out of character.

Which brings me to Goddlefrood's point:

> Annemehr, earlier:
> ... he's just closed up in his room shooting down flies as
> though it were a distraction from what's really eating him.

Goddlefrood:

Why wouldn't he want Harry to know that he once sat in his
bedroom shooting flies? IMO, this was only a small part of
a larger memory. It could be conjectured that the young
Severus had just been told to stay away from that Evans
girl, leading him to go to his room to shoot flies in
order to release some of his frustaration over that. Not
something he would be proud of or particularly want Harry
to know about.

Annemehr:

Well, every episode of one's life has a larger context, and your 
conjecture is as good as any.

We know this is not one of the *worst* memories, because if it were, 
it would be in the pensieve.  But it *is,* as Carol points out, very 
much out of character, and I think it does show Snape in a moment of 
weakness, which he certainly would not want Harry to see.


Now, back to the conversation with Carol:
> 
> Annemehr, earlier:
> > This is one of a series of *bad* memories <snip>

> 
> Carol:
> I agree about the final slide into despair but not necessarily that
> Snape was evoking bad memories in Harry during the Occlumency 
lessons
> (remember his kiss with Cho, the memory that prompts Harry to take
> action?). I'm also not sure that the hexed broom incident qualifies 
as
> a bad memory (though Snape doesn't like having Harry see it--his 
love
> for Lily is his great secret). I think that the memories are random,
> mostly bad only because both Harry and Snape have mostly bad 
memories.
> 
> Carol, who thinks that the primary purpose of the memories is to
> arouse the reader's curiosity about Snape and add to his ambiguity
>

Annemehr:
Well...

The Cho memory was perhaps not bad exactly, but I would say it was 
certainly uncomfortable.  Really, his entire relationship with her 
was uncomfortable, except for a bit of their walk to Hogsmeade on 
Valentine's Day -- until Pansy ruined that.

Now that I am typing this though, I realise it would make the most 
sense to teach Occlumency by trying to evoke the memories the student 
would most like to keep *private*.  It would make sense that those 
would tend to be the bad ones (especially for Harry, who's only had 
one interlude of sexual activity).
 
They can't really just be random, though, or they would be so much 
more mundane.  And, if they're just significant memories, we'd see 
some happy ones too -- Harry does have plenty of those.

Annemehr