Snape, Lupin, and teaching (WAS: First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta...)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 185764

„«	SSSusan:
> I guess I think of someone like Lupin here. I know, I know -- it's
> been argued by some that Lupin's method of teaching the Patronus
> Charm wasn't all that explicit either (comparing to Snape's teaching
> about Occlumency/Legilimency), but does anyone doubt that Lupin 
would
> have done *whatever it took* for Harry to learn?

Zara:
*raises hand*
It seemed to me that Lupin did not want to teach Harry about Dementors
at all. It was only at Harry's insistence that he did so.
„«	<SNIPS CANON go UPTHREAD to read it>
<MORE SNIPPAGE of the argument>
But it was quite clear to me that the lessons
were something Harry wanted very much for his own private reasons, and
he talked Lupin into giving them against's Lupin's own better 
judgment.
Lupin then proceeded to teach Harry, who made excellent effort and
persisted despite emotional discomfort caused by the Boggart/Dementor.

Alla:

You said it yourself though, Harry wanted to learn for his own 
private reasons and while as series progress we see that this is a 
very good thing that he learned Patronus, it is not something that 
Lupin thought he would necessarily need.

I cannot speak for Susan of course, but it seems to me that she was 
arguing that Lupin would have done whatever it takes if he felt Harry 
truly needed it, be it Dumbledore who asked him or whatever the 
reason was that Lupin would have thought that to be important.

Zara:
Snape, on the other hand, had in Harry a student of Occlumency who was
completely unwilling to learn, and put no effort into the classes. And
while some part of that could be laid at Snape's door based on their
past history together, I think it unfair to blame Snape entirely. 
Harry
had reasons unrelated to Snape for not wanting to block out Voldemort.
He did, as Snape accused, *want* to have the dreams, and acted
accordingly. Snape persisted for a couple of months in the face of 
this
opposition, presumably because he did recognize the importance of 
Harry
learning this, even while Harry ignored not only Snape's (extensive)
explanation of this, but also the urgings of Lupin, Sirius, Albus, and
Hermione, all of whom Harry liked and respected.

Alla:

Um, I am NOT blaming Snape entirely, surely not after book 7. Harry 
absolutely wanted to have the dreams. But I do think that teacher 
like Lupin; somebody who Harry liked and respected would have been 
able to impress upon Harry the necessity to overcome that desire. 
We after all saw in PoA how much more Lupin¡¦s words affect Harry than 
Snape¡¦s (after Hogsmeade trip).

You said that Harry ignored warnings of the people he liked and 
respected, sure, he did, however, I think that with the hated teacher 
warnings only caused to worsen the situation.

Believe me, I DO blame Dumbledore for not teaching Harry himself, or 
assigning another teacher, boy I do. But I also blame Snape for five 
years of antagonizing Harry and for Harry¡¦s mental state when he 
starts the lessons. I brought up those quotes more than once, I can 
do so again. And yes, I think Harry¡¦s mental state before the lessons 
is *entirely* Snape¡¦s fault.

JMO,

Alla