First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 185778

> > Montavilla47:
> >snip>
>  I think it's probably a difficult discipline to teach, especially 
> when
> > you're under pressure to do it as quickly as possible, in secret,
> > with someone you can't stand and desperately want to hide your
> > feelings from, and with the knowledge that the Voldemort can
> > "see"  through the eyes of whether he chooses--since he might
> > happen to notice that you're actually working for the other side
> > and decide to kill you for it.
> > 
> > Those are Snape's obstacles.  Harry's obstacles include hating
> > his teacher on general principle, being royally pissed off at 
> > Dumbledore (who mandated the lessons), having been warned
> > by his stepfather that the lessons are only really an excuse for
> > Snape to torment him (like the detentions with Dolores), intense
> > curiosity about the visions he's receiving from Voldemort, and
> > the nagging feeling that he's better off seeing them since they
> > helped save Arthur Weasley's life.
> 
> jkoney:
> I don't remember the part where Voldemort can "see" through Harry's 
> eyes or even read his mind. It seemed to me that he was able to plant 
> a thought/vision in Harry's head. If I'm remembering wrong please let 
> me know where Voldemort see's through Harry's eyes. The MoM is the 
> only scene I can think of that comes close to this and that seemed to 
> require that they were close together.


Montavilla47:
I'm not sure that he can, but I'm not sure that he can't either.  I 
thought that was what was going on in that scene when Dumbledore
sent Harry and the Weasley kids to 12 Grimauld Place.   Harry feels
something going on when he looks at Dumbledore--and I took that
to mean Voldemort was "seeing" through him.

Dumbledore is really vague about he fears might be going on 
with Harry--he mentions possession, but in way that sounds like
there might be something else going on as well.  At the time
he assigns Snape to teach Harry, all that Harry's told him about
is his vision of Arthur being attacked.  Dumbledore also knows,
because Sirius told him in GoF, that Harry saw Frank Bryce being
murdered.

But he isn't concerned about Harry's visions until that moment
when Harry feels the strange surge of rage at Dumbledore.  It's
after that (and perhaps after receiving additional intelligence 
from Snape) that Dumbledore orders the lessons.

So, what has changed?  I doubt that Voldemort shared his plans
to send visions to Harry with Snape.  If the connection was only
one-way, it would hardly matter whether Voldemort knew about 
it.  If he employed Occlumency against Harry, no foul.  If he 
didn't, Harry's glimpses would only serve to annoy Voldemort and
help Dumbledore's side.

As for the proximity in the MoM, the connection seems to be
stronger when Voldemort and Harry are close.  Voldemort is 
able to actually possess (or something) Harry.  But, of course,
at that point he realizes that Harry is too full of love cooties
and decides to protect himself.  (I sort of imagine Harry 
being like one of those creatures that emits poison when 
bitten by a larger animal so that they get spit out.)  But if 
Harry is able to see through Voldemort's eyes at a distance,
why would distance be a factor in the connection working
in the opposite direction?

So, while no one ever came out and said that Voldemort
would be able to reverse the Legilimency connection between
himself and Harry, one would need to consider that as a 
strong possibility--considering that Voldemort was  such 
a great Legilimens.  

jkoney:
> Harry's learning style seems completely opposite to the way Snape 
> teaches. He eventually learns to block Voldemort out doing the exact 
> opposite of what Snape tells him. His way of handling dementors also 
> is different.

Montavilla47:
You're mixing up two different things here.  Learning styles vs. teaching
style is different from Harry's way of blocking Voldemort vs. Snape's 
method.  Also, Snape didn't insist on Harry using on method to block
Voldemort's mind-probes.  In fact, Harry was annoyed because Snape 
didn't tell him exactly how to block Legilimency at first--which argues
that Snape was aware that there were different ways to Occlude and
was willing to let Harry find the method that worked best *for Harry.*

In the Dementor lessons, Lupin employs only a single strategy for
repelling the Dementors: using a Boggart to replicate the Dementor
experience and having Harry try to cast a patronus.  As someone 
pointed out upthread, when Harry encounters difficulties, Lupin 
doesn't try a different strategy.  He suggests that Harry give up.

Now, maybe Snape should have tried using Lupin's trick.  Instead
of continuing to tutor the unwilling Harry, he should have suggested
that it was too difficult, given Harry some chocolate, and told him
to give it up.

That would be employing a different teaching style.  But, as your
point that Harry's learning style is unsuited to Snape's style, I'm 
not so sure about that.  At least, Harry really does seem to learn
more from Snape than he did from Slughorn, who heaped 
Harry with praise and encouragement.  And he gets the same
mark in Snape's subject that he gets in subjects taught by nicer
teachers, such as McGonagall, Flitwick, and Sprout.


> >>> Montavilla47:
> > And you are right to put the higher burden on the teacher.  But if 
> you
> > are going to condemn Snape not teaching Harry enough, I think it's 
> > only fair to point out that Snape actually taught Harry quite a bit.
> 
> jkoney:
> I'm not sure what Snape actually taught him other that you were going 
> to have deal with assholes in your life. I think Hermione and her 
> revision schedule helped Harry out more in potions than Snape ever 
> did as a teacher.

Montavilla47:
If you're going to give Hermione the credit for Harry's success, then
you're basically admitting that Harry needs someone riding his butt in 
order to excel.  On his own, Harry (and Ron) don't study, treat their
assignments as jokes, and end up failing their course.