First lesson WAS: Re: Marietta, was Slytherin's Reputation

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185786

Montavilla47 wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to think about another subject that Harry was unwilling
to learn, but I can't think of one.  The closest I can come to one is
when Dumbledore assigns Harry the "homework" of getting Slughorn's 
memory.  And it's not that Harry is unwilling, it's that it's more
difficult than Harry anticipated.  

Carol responds:
And, IIRC, he gets sidetracked, first by Ron's poisoning (which DD
accepts as a reasonable but temporary excuse) and then by--I can't
remember. Quidditch? Ginny? At any rate, he makes one attempt and
gives up. Possibly, he doesn't think it's as important as DD does.
Once that gets through to him, he stops making excuses, accepts
responsibility for his failure to acquire the memory, and succeeds in
getting it (with a lot of help from Felix Felicis). Motivation and
understanding, as well as wanting to meet Dumbledore's expectations,
seem to be the key here.

Montvilla 47: 
> Otherwise, Harry's ability to learn a subject seems dependent on the
teacher.  He excels at classes where he likes the teacher
Tranfiguration, Charms, COMC, and Herbology), does an average job in
the subject where the teacher is so unremarkable that he never talks
about him/her (Astrology), and does poorly in subjects there the
teachers are boring or generally annoying (History and Divination,
although of course his grade is worsened in History when he has to
leave early).

Carol responds:
I've been thinking about this topic, too, and I think that liking the
teacher is only part of it. (And I think we should discount the OWL
exams in Astronomy and History of Magic because they reflect major
distractions, not Harry's usual marks in the subject. sidenote:
Hermione seems to have received an O in Astronomy even with the
distraction of Umbridge and company attacking Hagrid!) Of course,
Hermione always helps both him and Ron with their essays and other
homework, which probably helps both of them get better marks than they
would otherwise. Unlike Hermione, he doesn't pay much attention in his
classes (she's the one who knows about Devil's Snare and Polyjuice
Potion and so forth). Even in Charms, where he likes the teacher, he
and Ron are usually talking or goofing off.

Those things aside, I think that natural ability and enjoyment of a
subject are as important with regard to Harry's performance in at
least some classes as the teacher. Madam Hooch's teaching abilities
are irrelevant to his learning to fly. He excels at it (and at
catching Snitchlike objects) from the first moment he gets on a broom.
And he's motivated to learn Quidditch from Oliver Wood, whether
Oliver, a kid himself, is a good teacher or not. He learns DADA, not
because he has good teachers (with the exception of Lupin and Snape,
the DADA teachers range from mediocre to abysmal) but because he's
highly motivated: He wants to fend off the Dementors so that he can
play Quidditch; he needs to learn Stupefy and similar spells to
survive the TWT. He's also motivated by the Prince's book. He likes
doing well in Potions thanks to the improved instructions (and getting
credit where credit is not due), and he also learns the spells almost
effortlessly, motivated, it seems, by curiosity and enjoyment (and,
ironically, by affection for his friend, the Prince). I think he does
learn, despite himself, from the essays he's forced to write (with a
little help from Hermione) for Potions and Astronomy, at least. In
Divination, OTOH, he has no motivation to learn at all and fakes his
homework. It seems to be a combination of a ditzy teacher and a
"fuzzy" subject for which even Hermione has no use and a complete lack
of interest or aptitude. (We see a contrasting reaction from Parvati
and Lavender, who like Trelawney and perhaps have some aptitiude for
reading tea leaves and crystal balls.) His poor performance in History
of Magic, setting aside the OWL he doesn't get through because of the
implanted vision, is probably a combination of an uninspiring teacher
and lack of motivation to study on his own. At one point, he realizes
that the subject might have been interesting in the hands of another
teacher, but Binns just drones on monotonously without even knowing
his own students' names, hardly varying the subject matter. (Why are
they *still* studying Goblin Wars? Hasn't anything else happened in WW
history? If Binns had talked about the rise of Grindelwald or
Voldemort, Harry would have been motivated to listen.) As for liking
the COMC teacher, Harry grudgingly admits (or the narrator does) that
he learns more from Grubbly-Plank, whom he resents, than from Hagrid,
who is for the most part an abysmal teacher. (Thestrals prove useful,
but it seems to be Luna who's learned about them.)

Montavilla47: 
> But he does as well in potions as he does with the classes where he
actually likes the teachers--with no indication that Harry enjoys the
subject for its own sake, or sees any purpose in it beyond passing one
of his classes.  Harry also notes that Snape is effective in getting
the class to concentrate--while in other classes, he is often chatting
with Ron and Hermione about other subjects (they do this in Charms and
Herbology) or even playing around (he and Ron pretend to duel with the
chicken wands in Transfiguration).
> 
> And when Harry does get a nice teacher in potions, he promptly stops
learning the subject, content to rely on someone else's work--as long
as he gets praise and treats.

Carol:
I agree except that Harry does have a motivation for bringing up his
marks in the core subjects (setting aside DADA and Umbridge) in OWL
year: He needs to get into NEWT Potions, Herbology, Transfiguration,
and Charms to become an Auror. 

I agree that he learned more in Potions from Snape than he did from
Slughorn (unless you count the effects of Felix Felicis). Otherwise,
he'd never have earned an E despite his dislike of Snape. And his
performance in Slughorn's class has nothing to do with Slughorn's
favoritism and everything to do with following Snape's directions to
the letter. If only he'd done that in classes where Snape was actually
the teacher instead of the textbook reviser!

Carol, who thinks that motivation is the key to Harry's performance
(or lack thereof), with enjoyment, natural ability, and the teacher's
style and/or competence also factoring into the equation