Protego (and a bit on Impedimenta) Was: First lesson

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185934

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Montavilla47:
> Interesting, Annemehr. My own (entirely unsupported) theory is that
> Serpentsoria is a spell that Slytherin firsties are traditionally 
> taught by
> older students because it's a cool way to conjure up the House Mascot.
> 
> Of course, they'd all know how to get rid of it, too.
> 
> But, you're right. Why bother to have Snape whisper instructions to
> Draco here? Just to be a jerk? Well, okay, I can buy that (especially
> after that House cup switcheroo the previous year) that Snape just
> wants to have *his* Slytherin student show up the Gryffindor golden
> boy. But it's more fun to think Snape was doing a bit of sleuthing for
> Dumbledore.
> 
> <g>
> 
> Annemehr:
> Hee.  A bit of Harry-deflating and some Slytherin pride all in one?  
> Along with Snape's wearing of the green at Quidditch and his House 
> Cup competitiveness, I could see it! <g>
> 
> 
>  
> > > Annemehr:
> > > So, I wonder if Snape could have used [Protego] to shield himself 
> from 
> > Buckbeak at the end of HBP - or, can't you use it when you are 
> > moving, because then you'd just run into your own wall? <snip>
> > 
> > Carol responds:
> > I don't think you'd run into your own wall because you'd be running
> > away from the pursuing hippogriff.
> 
> Annemehr:
> I don't know how we could tell.  Would it move along with you, or is 
> it planted in place?  Is it *so* temporary, that it would disappear 
> before you got to it, if you were running?  What about on a broom?

Carol responds:

The wall would be between you and the hippogriff, which means that
when you turned around to run, it would be behind you--unless, of
course, the wall is all around you, in which case, it would have to
move with you, or you'd be trapped by your own spell. Same thing with
riding a broom. If you just want to create an obstacle between
yourself and the pursuer, you probably cast Impedimenta rather than
Protego. When Harry is on a broom, he casts Impedimenta at a masked DE
(who turns out to be Stan Shunpike), causing him to strike an
invisible barrier. It might be better to cast Impedimenta at a
pursuing hippogriff rather than Protego, depending on how long the
wall lasts and whether it stays with you. (Elsewhere Impedimenta
causes pursuers to trip or hurls them against a wall, as in HBP when
Harry casts that spell against the Carrows on two occasions--the
descriptions are inconsistent.) Of course, a conjured snake is
different from a real hippogriff or a Dark witch/wizard. The best
counterspell for Serpensortia is clearly Evanesco, the Vanishing
spell. But if the choice is between Protego and Impedimenta, I think
that Protego would be better because the wall would last longer,
creating *protection* as opposed to an *impediment* if the names of
the spells are any indication of their respective purposes.

As for how long Protego (as opposed to the clearly short-term
Impedimenta) lasts, that also seems to vary. When it's merely cast to
block a spell, it seems to sometimes deflect the spell onto the
caster, knocking him or her over (cf. the Protego that Harry casts
against Snape in the Occlumency lesson). Sometimes, it merely knocks
the person over *without* deflecting the spell, which apparently never
gets cast(cf. Harry's Protego against Snape in the DADA class and
Snape's against McGonagall in "The Sacking of Severus Snape")); and
sometimes it creates a protective wall, which, in the case of Harry's
Protego separating Hermione from Ron in DH, lasts until Harry removes
it, which is quite a long time (six pages of dialogue, some of it
condensed). Of course, Hermione at that point doesn't have her wand or
she might have been able to cast a counterspell (if such a thing
exists for defensive spells). Oddly, Harry casts the destroyed locket
into her lap *before* he removes the spell, which could indicate that
the wall blocks her but not him--i.e., the caster of the Protego would
be able to cast spells through it but the blocked person couldn't. (I
wish JKR were more consistent in describing the various spells and
their effects. At this point, to be honest, I'm just confused.)

Annemehr:
> <snip>
> I also checked HBP, and he didn't attempt it against the inferi in 
the cave, either.  And I'm thinking it would have helped if he had - 
all the other spells he tried worked; they just weren't effective. 
That is, incarcerous and impedimenta worked on individual inferi, but
there were just too many of them, and sectumsempra made slashes appear
in them, but as they were already dead, it didn't stop them 
advancing.  So, presumably, protego would have worked on a dead body
as well as working on live ones.

Carol:
I agree. But he probably thought of it as a protection against a Dark
wizard with a wand, so he didn't cast it.

Annemehr:
> I can't really say whether he thought Harry might be responsible for 
> the attacks.  That would partly depend on how much DD told him.  But 
> it really doesn't look as though Snape suspects Harry in connection
with them, as I recall. <snip>

Carol responds:

"Guilty until proven innocent, Severus"? (I'm quoting from memory, but
it's in the scene in CoS when they find the Petrified Mrs. Norris.
(Filch, of course, definitely suspects Harry.)

> Annemehr:
> Given that I don't think he believed that Harry was opening the 
Chamber, I'm thinking this was at DD's behest.  (Was there ever any
indication that Snape ever knew that Voldemort was the one who opened
it the first time, btw? I can't recall.)

Carol:
He would know that the Chamber had been opened fifty years ago, at the
point when Hagrid was expelled and Tom Riddle received his award for
services to the school, which was prominently displayed in the Trophy
Room. And he would know, of course, that Voldemort was a Parselmouth.
So, if he also knew that Tom Riddle was Voldemort, he would know that
Tom Riddle, the original Heir of Slytherin, had opened the Chamber
fifty years earlier.

Annemehr: 
> As for the Dueling Club in particular, he may just have been looking
for a good opportunity to elicit Parseltongue from Harry, and this 
was it.  I can't imagine him setting a snake on Harry himself, as it
would would be construed as attacking a student, and it wouldn't be 
his style anyway.  Best to induce Draco to do it sometime; those two 
are always at odds and it would look like business as usual.

Carol responds:
The whole point being that DD asked him to determine whether Harry was
a Parselmouth without telling him anything else? Snape would at least
connect Parseltongue (and DD's suspicion that Harry spoke it) with the
Petrification of Mrs. Norris and would probably know that the monster
must be a Basilisk. (He, of course, must be the one who brewed the
potion from the Mandrake roots that Madam Sprout was conveniently
growing.) I think that Snape had suspicions of his own, as the "shrewd
and calculating expression" indicates (as does his reaction when Harry
is found near the Petrified cat). Obviously, if he suspected that
Harry was the Heir of Slytherin, he was wrong, having once again used
his excellent powers of deduction to arrive at the wrong conclusion,
but it would at least provide him with a reason for wanting to
determine whether Harry spoke Parseltongue other than merely following
DD's inexplicable orders.

Anyway, I'm back to agreeing with you that Snape took the opportunity
to suggest that spell to Draco with the explicit intention of
discovering whether Harry spoke Parseltongue. Whether he did it at
DD's prompting or on his own initiative or both is unclear. I suspect
that DD at least asked him to volunteer to be Lockhart's assistant and
that they discussed the matter of Harry's possible ability to speak
Parseltongue, Snape perhaps arriving at conclusions rather different
from Dumbledore's. At first, he seems to have thought that they were
wrong since he was ready to Vanish the snake as Harry stood staring at
it. It was only after Lockhart bungled the Vanishing spell and angered
the snake that Harry started speaking to it (a matter of a few
seconds). Granted, Snape didn't Vanish the snake until Harry had
already calmed it, but I don't think the thought that either Harry or
Justin was in any real danger or he'd have done it sooner. OTOH, the
whole purpose of the spell does seem to have been to see whether Harry
spoke Parseltongue, which could not be done unless he was given time
to do so.

Interesting dilemma for Snape, who has to protect Harry while exposing
him as having an ability associated with Dark wizards, which the
Hufflepuffs immediately connect with the Heir of Slytherin (especially
when Justin is the next victim). I think, given his antipathy to James
and his knowledge of James's hexing people who annoyed him in the
hallways, that Snape at least considered the possibility that Harry
had Petrified Filch's cat. (There's also his mysterious suppressed
smile during the cat scene; maybe, for once, he feels a touch of
empathy for Harry--or whoever Petrified Filch's "sweet" pet.)

One thing is certain: Snape reported to Dumbledore that Harry was a
Parselmouth, probably describing the incident in detail. I'm quite
sure that his methods and intentions met with Dumbledore's approval
even though DD didn't share his (apparent) suspicions. 

Carol, who likes the Dueling Club scene because it provides the first
hints that Snape knows something besides Potions (and because Snape
shows up Lockhart so completely)