CHAPDISC: DH36, THE FLAW IN THE PLAN

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185232

This post continues my previous one responding to questions 1-10 of
SSS's chapter summary. (And you thought *you* had too much to say, SSS!)

> 
> 11.  There has been quite a varied response to Molly Weasley in this
scene.  What is yours?

Carol:
Very mixed. I don't like vengeance, but better a furious mother who's
 just lost one child fiercely protecting another than Neville taking
revenge for what Bellatrix did to his parents. And, in her position,
I'd probably have done much the same thing (minus the "Alien" allusion).

By the way, we don't hear Molly shouting "Avada Kedavra," which raises
the question of which spell she used. And I also wonder why the DEs in
this chapter and the MoM battle in OoP use any spell other than AK.
It's not as if they're worried about a life sentence to Azkaban! It
must be something to do with wanting to show off their repertoire of
dirty tricks (Dark magic). But where are the spells like the
purple-lit one that Dolohov used on Hermione in OoP, or the ones
Voldemort used against DD in the same book? I can understand not
casting Crucio in the heat of battle; while you're concentrating on
torturing your opinion, an enemy can do you in. But we don't even see
Sectum Sempra, which leads me to the conclusion that Snape never
taught it to anybody. (The Hogwarts team would have been up a creek if
the DEs had used that spell without Snape's songlike countercurse to
heal it!)
> 
> 12.  If you had (or have) no vested interest in Harry Potter, what
would you think of Voldemort's remarks here?  Has he missed the point
entirely, or does he have a point about accidents and Dumbledore? Does
it make sense that he would see things this way?

Carol responds:
He does have a point, one that Harry himself has recognized at other
points in the story. Obviously, without training from Dumbledore, he
wouldn't have known about the Horcruxes. And a lot of what has
happened to Harry has depended on luck (things like Priori Incantatem
and the shared drop of blood), and he's certainly had the help all
along of more talented friends and allies, from Hermione throughout to
Ron's chess game in SS/PS, to the secret help and protection of
Severus Snape that LV doesn't even know about (all he knows is that
Snape was DD's man--lying, spying, and killing DD on DD's orders).
But, of course, LV would see only those elements, especially since
Snape would have made a point of emphasizing Harry's mediocrity. That
Harry might also have virtues of his own, such as courage,
determination, and a desire to save and defend others (setting aside a
personal agenda and the advantage of having direct access to LV's
toughts) would not have occurred to LV.
> 
> 13.  What do you think Harry thought the odds were that Riddle would
actually be able to find some remorse?  Did he believe it was
possible?  Was he doubting DD's statement that nothing could be done
to help the Voldy-Baby-Thing?  Was he offering this up to be able to
know that he'd done all he could?

Carol responds:
Harry says that he's seen what Voldie will become if he doesn't feel
remorse, so I don't think he's doubting DD. If LV dies unrepentant, no
help will be possible. The only person who can save Voldie from that
fate is Voldie himself. So Harry is pointing that out, offering him
that chance. He knows that remorse is possible--he's seen Snape. But
he also knows that Voldie is much farther gone than Snape, with his
Horcrux-mangled soul, countless murders, and total absence of love.
Still, his human instinct to protect any fellow being from that fate
arises, and he offers Voldie a chance to avoid it. (Exactly how much
help was possible when seven soul bits had been permanently destroyed,
I don't know. Maybe the remainder, torn by murders that had not
resulted in Horcruxes, could have healed after who knows how much
torment. Maybe then the stunted, deformed Baby-Thing could have been
comforted. I just don't know, and neither did Harry. He must have
known that Voldie would never accept the offer, never admit that he
was wrong and Harry right, never accept the idea of his own mortality
and an eternal self-made hell. But, yes, I think that Harry would have
felt guilty if he hadn't offered that chance for remorse. As you say,
he had to do all he could. And, speaking only for myself, I much
prefer his offering Voldie a chance for redemption--and once more
counting on "accident" and luck (and the spell Snape taught him) to
save him to having him cast an AK himself. He didn't have to choose
between becoming a murderer or a murder victim after all.
> 
> 14.  When did Harry puzzle all this out about the Elder Wand?  Does
he believe it?  Does he just hope it's true?

Carol responds:
As I said earlier about his figuring out the connection between Voldie
and the Baby Thing, I think his unconscious mind was putting together
the puzzle pieces while his conscious mind was busy with other things.
I think he does believe it, but at the same time, he hopes that what
he believes is true. His belief and hope together outweigh any shadow
of a doubt still lurking somewhere in his mind.
> 
> 15.  Tom Riddle falls "with a mundane finality."  Such a fascinating
phrase.  Was there anything mundane at all about this?  Does JKR 
imply that death strikes us all, no matter who are what?  Why use such
a phrase?

Carol responds;
To me it meant that all the aura of Dark magic and terror and
unnatural powers surrounding the self-named Voldemort had left him. He
was only Tom Riddle, a gifted wizard but mortal like the rest of us
and his death was as final, as inevitable, and as ordinary as anyone
else's (setting aside the fate of his tattered soul)--nothing left but
a powerless and lifeless body that could never rise again. No
Vapormort this time; no surviving a second AK. No life, no power, no
mystique. He might as well be Wormtail--except that, unlike Wormtail,
he'll make it into the history books as an object lesson.
> 
> 16.  Wow.  To answer that earlier rhetorical question of
Harry's--No, Voldy really doesn't learn from his mistakes, does he? :)
 In all seriousness, though, *is* this Voldemort's biggest mistake,
his failure to learn?  Or was there something else which was his more
 fundamental mistake?

Carol responds:
It was a flaw, certainly, and maybe a fatal flaw. But a case could be
made for hubris or the fear of death that drove him to such extremes.
I'll see what others say and respond to their responses.
> 
> 17.  Now that time has passed and it's all been considered & talked
over (and over and over), does the "Who's master of the Elder Wand and
how does it happen?" work for you or not?

Carol responds:
Not really. Too many unanswered questions, especially what DD wanted
Snape to do with the wand and how DD defeated Grindelwald, the master
of the wand. I don't think the wand was really unbeatable, for one.
And the depiction of wands as sentient and compatible or incompatible
with wizards who aren't their masters is too inconsistent. Suffice it
to say that I wish that the Elder Wand had never entered the story.
Harry could have won without it (somehow) and Snape could have lived
and Voldemort could have been doing more interesting things (waging a
war in England) than running all over Europe murdering people who are
never mentioned again (Grindelwald excepted).
> 
> 18.  This has been discussed much before, but just *why* do the
Malfoys look as if they're not sure whether they should be there? 
Because of the part they had once played but had set aside? Because
there were no other Slytherins there to speak of?  Because...?

Carol responds:
Probably because they haven't so much as raised a wand in battle,
certainly not against Voldemort, whereas everyone else there has
fought against LV and many are injured or have lost loved ones. Of
course, the scene is from Harry's perspective as described by the
narrator, but it seems accurate enough. They would feel out of place.
Any Slytherins who are there (except maybe a confused and possibly
grieving Goyle, if he knows that Crabbe is dead) would have followed
Slughorn onto the field, fighting against LV. They would definitely
feel alone and excluded, IMO. Certainly, no one is trying to comfort
or reassure them or asking how they feel! (I wonder if they talk to
each other about Snape, now that they know he's dead and was really on
DD's side.)
> 
> 19.  Many were disappointed by the part Slytherin played at the end,
having hoped for so much more from students, children of DEs, etc.  
Thinking of the roles of the Slytherins who *did* play a part – 
Horace and Narcissa in particular – are those parts worth 
celebrating?  How significant to the outcome were they?

Carol responds:
I've already talked about Narcissa in several questions. As for
Slughorn, it's hard to say how much effect his return had in terms of
the outcome of the battle, aside from the morale boost that fresh
troops always bring. Harry is focused on other parts of the battle and
a lot of things are happening at once. However, Phineas Nigellus's
statement that "Slytherin did its part" indicates to me that they were
just as important to the battle as any other latecomers (townspeople,
centaurs, etc.). It's the principle of the thing--the HoH of Slytherin
leading troops into battle--that's important, IMO, because it severs
the association between Voldemort and Slytherin that we see throughout
the books. (The former HoH and Slytherin headmaster, Snape, working
against Voldemort at the cost of his life also helped.) Still, though,
whether they affected the outcome of the battle or not, I want to
believe that many if not most of the students who returned bringing
their families were Slytherins. (I think we can safely rule out Pansy
Parkinson, however!)
> 
> 20.  Many left this book rather stunned at revelations about DD, not
altogether happy with the strings he pulled or decisions he made or
actions he took.  What do you make of the fact that, for Harry, DD's
pride and — let's face it — DD's approval were a balm equal to phoenix
song?

Carol responds:
I don't recall my initial reaction, to be honest, but I'd almost
reconciled myself to Dumbledore thanks to "King's Cross." It seemed to
me that we'd returned to the *real* Dumbledore, the one we loved
despite his flaws, as opposed to the manipulative and egotistical
Dumbledore of HBP and "The Prince's Tale." I never minded Harry's
being "Dumbledore's man through and through," and, after all, if it
weren't for Dumbledore, he'd never have known what he was up against
or how to defeat LV. I think it felt to Harry like having that old
Dumbledore back, too. And I think Harry understood better than Snape
(or many readers) did that Harry was never really a "pig to the
slaughter"--at least after GoF when he had a chance for survival. (The
Hallows may have presented an additional chance though the whole
"Master of Death" motif isn't clear.) And I can see Harry wanting
Portrait!DD's approval, much as he'd always wanted the living DD's
approval. Harry, it seems, remembers only the good and forgets or
forgives the bad in both DD and Snape, which is why he names his
second son after them. He retains his admiration and gratitude and
forgets any resentment and misunderstanding. Admirable, really. (Of
course, if I'm thinking about DD's manipulation and wondering what he
had in mind for Snape, my feelings are rather different. I think,
though, that I was more preoccupied with where Snape's portrait was
than with the Phoenix tears image when I first read that chapter. What
was DD doing above the headmaster's desk? That's where Portrait!Snape
belongs.)
> 
> 21.  Would you have kept any of the Deathly Hallows?  If so, which
one(s) and why?  If not, which would at least have tempted you?  Are
there any to whose power you think you'd have been totally immune?

Carol responds:
Not the Elder Wand, that's for sure. I'd have tried to destroy it or
placed it in a vault where no one could find it till I died. The
Invisibility Cloak, maybe, but it would be more useful if I could also
Apparate. (I can imagine someone like Mrs. Weasley checking on her
kids that way.) I'd be most tempted by the Resurrection Stone because
I've lost loved ones that I'd love to see again. I'd at least want to
see them and know what their existence in the afterlife was like. Do
they still care about those of us who are left behind on earth? Do
they watch over us? Enough on that painful subject. I don't live in
the Potterverse, I'm not a witch, and I won't be tempted by any of
those objects, fortunately!
> 
> 22.  As you finished this chapter for the first time, how satisfied
or dissatisfied were you?  Did it feel like a resolution befitting our
protagonist and antagonist?

Carol:
I was an emotional wreck. I remember being glad that Harry explained
about Snape to Ron and Hermione, but I don't remember much else
(except initial confusion when I read the Epilogue, but I'll save that
for next time). I had expected a permanent defeat for Voldemort and
I'd expected something like a return from death for Harry (the hero's
journey into the Underworld). I was sure that he would survive for too
many reasons to count, and I was glad that his close friends had all
survived, too. (I wasn't thinking about Fred.) Harry's defeating LV
through Expelliarmus (which had been foreshadowed at least since GoF
and maybe since CoS) was fitting. I was and am very glad that he
didn't try to cast an AK and that he didn't have to "murder" LV to
defeat him. As for that sandwich he thinks of asking Kreacher for, I'm
sure that Kreacher would be greatly honored, Harry Potter, sir.
> 
> 23.  So if you had to do it in your own words and as concisely as
possible, how would you sum up just what that "flaw in the plan" was?

Carol responds:
Apparently, it's only the unanticipated Expelliarmus by Draco.
Obviously, DD didn't want Draco to be the wand's master (but he still
wanted Snape to kill him so that the rest of the plan would work).
Just what would have happened then (whether the wand would have lost
all its powers or just turned into an ordinary wand) is unclear, as is
what DD wanted Snape to do with it. At any rate, the plan backfires on
Voldemort, making Harry the master of the wand. That, it seems, is how
Harry survived--which leaves me to wonder what DD hoped for in Harry's
case, as well. Maybe he'd have greeted him at King's Cross a second
time, or hoped that having the Hallows together, with the wand
masterless, would make Harry the master of death. It makes my head
hurt thinking about it.

Carol, who will really miss these discussions and can't believe
there's only one left!