CHAPDISC: DH36, THE FLAW IN THE PLAN

[jkoney65]

No: HPFGUIDX 185254

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> jkoney65:
> > 
> > The last thing he saw was the DE's standing around and Voldemort
> casting the killing curse. I think he expected them to cheer. I 
think
> he realized the bit of Voldemort he saw was the piece from the scar
> and therefore Voldemort should still be standing and gloating. 
<snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> But it wasn't the soul piece from the scar, which DD informs Harry 
was
> totally destroyed. It's the thing Voldemort will become if he 
doesn't
> feel remorse (as Harry informs him before the final duel). JKR
> confirmed this interpretation in an interview.

jkoney65:
It may be what JKR said, but that still doesn't make sense to me. How 
could Voldemort's soul be there (whether in his head or not). It 
makes more sense to me that the part that was removed from Harry was 
also on its final journey and was also trapped there with Harry. So 
he saw a reflection of what Voldemort's soul had become.


> 
> jkoney65:
> > They look like they shouldn't be there because they shouldn't be. 
> They were followers of Voldemort, Draco let the DE's into the 
castle 
> in HBP, etc. They should be arrested and imprisoned with Narcissa
> getting  a lighter sentance for helping Harry out. <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> That's an interesting perspective. I don't think that Narcissa was
> ever a DE or committed any crimes (with the possible exception of
> helping to terrorize the Muggles at the QWC0, so I don't think she
> would be sentenced. And none of them took part in the battle. 
Clearly,
> even Lucius's loyalty to Voldemort had dwindled by the end of the
> book. In fact, he didn't take part in the pursuit of Harry in DH (LV
> took his wand, which was later destroyed).

jkoney65:
We didn't see Narcissa commit any crimes herself. But she hosted the 
death eater meetings, she was there when someone was murdered in her 
house, she was there when the trio was locked up and Hermione was 
tortured, and she was there when Luna and the others were being held 
against their will in her basement. That sounds like aiding and 
abetting a crime to me. 

Carol:
 It's possible that the time
> Lucius was supposed to serve as a DE is nearly up, and he hasn't
> committed any new crimes for the simple reason that he doesn't have 
a
> wand (and maybe none of the wands that Bellatrix took from the
> Snatchers work for him). Would he get off lightly with time already
> served because he didn't fight for LV (and, no doubt, repudiated him
> loudly if anyone questioned him afterward)? And what about Draco? No
> one except Harry, a few DEs, and the now-dead Snape know that Draco
> let the DEs into Hogwarts. McGonagall knows that Madam Rosmerta was
> Imperiused, but she doesn't know that Draco did it. No one but Harry
> knows that Draco tried to kill DD with poisoned mead and a cursed
> necklace, which nearly killed his classmates. And Draco was only
> sixteen at the time (possibly just turned seventeen when he let the
> DEs in, given his June birthday). What sentence, if any, does anyone
> think he received?
> 
> My thought is that the Malfoys have lost their influence in 
Wizarding
> society. It's possible, though, that their wealth has increased with
> Bellatrix dead and Andromeda written out of her will, making 
Narcissa
> or Draco her heir. That's assuming, of course, that Rodolphus and
> Rabastan are also dead. (Draco hasn't fallen so far that he can't 
find
> a wife later.)
> 
> Anyway, I think that the Malfoys have been punished enough, with the
> possible exception of Lucius, who might benefit from a year or two 
of
> bread and water, solitary confinement, and no baths.


jkoney:
I thought Lucius was broken out of prison because he was out before 
the DE's took over the ministry. If so, breaking out of prison is a 
crime. So is what he was imprisoned for. He also gave Ginny a 
dangerous artifact that almost killed her and a number of students. 
No, I don't see any reason for him not to go back to prison. His 
remorse was in response to how he was treated by Voldemort not 
because he had believed what he had done was wrong. Even if it was, 
saying he is sorry for the crimes he committed isn't enough.

Draco is no innocent. He injured and almost killed Katie and Ron. He 
should be up for some charges because of that. He let the DE's in the 
castle where people were injured and the result was DD's death. Just 
because not everyone knows about it doesn't make it less of a crime. 
He was even trying to capture Harry in the RoR. He would have turned 
him over to regain his and his family's status with Voldemort. That 
means he was working for Voldemort's side.


> 
> jkoney65:
>  I would have kept the wand, because every evil wizard is going to 
be
> gunning for Harry Potter. He's going to become the notch that they 
all
> want on their wand. so I think it would be very helpful to him. 
<snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> I'm not sure that the Elder Wand really is unbeatable, and Harry
> should do just fine with his own wand, especially since no one else
> will have a supposedly unbeatable wand. The only reason for Dark
> wizards to go gunning for him would be if he *did* use the wand. If 
he
> kept it safely hidden, no one knew where, there would be no point in
> killing or defeating him (except that he's an Auror) because the 
wand
> would still be inaccessible. Besides, if he used the wand, he'd risk
> being murdered in his sleep like the original owner, and the evil
> cycle would continue. The only way to break the power of the wand is
> not to use it and to let its power die with its undefeated master.
> 

jkoney65:
I don't think that you are evil enough (or perhaps it's a male trait) 
but the next dark wizard is going to go after Harry at some point. It 
may be a sports phrase but to be the best you have to beat the best.

 The only way to be the best (greater than Voldemort) is to kill the 
one who beat Voldemort. An example would be the legend of Wild Bill 
Hickock