CHAPDISC: DH36, THE FLAW IN THE PLAN

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 185266

SSSusan:
> > You stated that Harry couldn't play up Slytherin goodness too 
> > much without sounding like Sluggy praising Lily, so I was merely 
> > saying that I think JKR could have found a way to show some 
> > Slytherin goodness without having to have it come from Harry, or 
> > without it coming across Sluggy-on-Lily-like.

Pippin:
> Hard to believe, or hard to notice? 

SSSusan:
I'm admit to being a little bit lost on how believe vs. notice came 
in, since I didn't allege either one, I don't think.  I was saying I 
wanted it to be demonstrated via the narration of events, which isn't 
a matter of belief nor of notice. 


Pippin:
> Winning the House Cup seven years in a row wasn't being good?  
> Being hospitable to the Durmstrang students? Standing to honor  
> Harry in defiance of Draco and his pals?  <snip additional examples>
> When Nott was so innocuous that after five years, Harry didn't even
> know who he was....

SSSusan:
'Course, that last one's not saying too much when Harry didn't even 
know who Cormac was, and he lived in his same House. ;)


Pippin: 
> No Slytherin student wins great acclaim for goodness. But that 
> hasn't got a thing to do with being good. And anyway, what is this 
> hangup about students -- if Slytherins tend to mature more slowly 
> than others, is that so terrible? Isn't it incredibly age-ist to 
> say that you're not a real hero unless you've saved the world while 
> still in your teens?
> 
> Sorry if I sounded too sarcastic. What I'm saying is, she did show 
> it and more than a little, IMO, but for some people that's never 
> going to be enough. You have to look hard to see them being good....

SSSusan:
I think we're clearly talking at cross purposes here, which I can 
probably attribute to my not being more clear in expressing what I 
was trying to express.

I was talking *specifically about the final battle at Hogwarts,* not 
about instances throughout the series.  I have no problem agreeing 
that the kinds of things you listed did occur, nor that at least some 
of them might have indicated "goodness" on the part of some 
Slytherins.

What I struggle with is that, in the situation where it really 
mattered to *demonstrate* any goodness within--in terms of fighting 
against what's clearly badness--we didn't get to see even one 
Slytherin student do that.  That's the part that makes me groan.

And since I am talking specifically about fighting Voldemort & the 
DEs at the end, I admit that, yes, I am focusing on students.  I 
don't see that as a "hangup;" it's just that I know what I was 
thinking about when I wrote the question, and that was, the 
demonstrated behavior of Slytherins in the final chapter & in the 
final battle.

When we've got members of the other three Houses in Dumbledore's 
Army, when we see them battling the Baddies, then, yes, we readers 
*see* student maturity, student goodness, if you will.  And when we 
see not a one Slytherin student stand up in the same manner, then it 
appears that that particular aspect of goodness is lacking in *all* 
of them.  And I wish JKR hadn't painted it that way.  That's all I'm 
really saying.  

And, I do know that McGonagall had ordered 'em all out, so that was a 
real problem for any of the Slytherin kids who might have been 
inclined to actually stay and fight against Voldemort, but again, 
that's *how* JKR chose to write the story; it was part of her story 
to make it even harder for us to see any Slytherin students breaking 
with the stereotypical Slytherin mentality/behavior that we'd seen 
through Harry's eyes all along.  Again, to me, it's just a *shame* 
that she saw fit to write it that way.  IMO alone, of course.

Siriusly Snapey Susan