a whole lot of parts of the chapter discussion

[jkoney65]

No: HPFGUIDX 185322

> Pippin: 
> > I will certainly concede that if Voldemort got his wandlore from
> you, he would never have believed that the Elder Wand would serve 
him
> better than the yew wand!
> 
> Carol:
> LOL. (But I got my wandlore regarding the yew wand from Ollivander 
and
> from JKR, 

jkoney:
But having read some of your posts, I think you have misinterpreted 
the wand lore and how it works.


> 
> Pippin: 
> > But Voldemort got his wand lore from Ollivander. 
> > 
> > "He is determined to possess it because he believes it will make 
him
> > truly invulnerable."
> > "And will it?"
> > "The owner of the Elder Wand must always fear attack," said
> > Ollivander, "but the idea of the Dark Lord in possession of the
> > Deathstick is, I must admit...formidable."
> 
> Carol:
> You're quoting Ollivander's words to *Harry,* which are not the same
> as Ollivander's words to LV.
> > 
> Pippin: 
> > We don't know exactly what Ollivander told Voldemort.
> 
> Carol:
> Exactly.

jkoney:
We don't know what he told Voldemort but we know Ollivander's 
thoughts on the matter when he tells Harry. We also know that 
Voldemort tortured the information out of him. I don't doubt he was 
listening to Ollivander while also reading his mind. He would have 
gotten the same information that Harry got.



> Pippin: 
> > I agree there doesn't seem to be any way of predicting whether a
> wand left free to act will choose an individual. 
> 
> Carol:
> I'm glad that we agree on something!
> 
> Pippin:
> > But a wand that has been beaten is not  free -- it's been 
captured.

> Carol responds:
> Do you really
> think that if Harry had Disarmed Bellatrix and taken her wand, it
> would have bent its evil will to him? Or that Harry's holly wand 
would
> ever have served a Death Eater (let alone Voldemort, against whom it
> had some sort of vendetta even when he wasn't using its brother 
wand)?
>
jkoney:
Yes! Harry used Draco's wand. Hermione used Bellatrix's wand. It may 
have taken effort, but it did occur. After that it is just a matter 
of mastering the wand.


> Pippin: 
> > It makes sense that if you capture one wand, you capture all the
> wands that owe that wizard their allegiance -- it explains why they
> wouldn't just carry spares.
> 
> Carol responds:
> It makes sense to you, not to me. As for spares, the DEs must have 
had
> them. Otherwise, how did the arrested DEs end up with wands to use 
at
> the MoM and the Battle of Hogwarts? But, then, Bellatrix somehow 
ended
> up with her own wand, as did Lucius after his arrest at the end of
> OoP. Yet another inconsistency or unexplained bit of illogic. 
Surely,
> those wands would have been confiscated. In any case, even if they
> didn't have spares, I don't see any reason to suppose that it's
> because they'd lose the allegiance of the spares if they were
> disarmed. There's nothing to that effect anywhere in the books. (And
> Sirius Black must have had a spare; he couldn't go out and ask
> Ollivander for a new one when he returned to 12 GP.)

jkoney:
Pippin makes complete sense to me if we go by our example of Harry 
capturing Draco's wand. Draco, at that time, was also the master of 
the Elder wand having disarmed Dumbledore. Harry became master of 
Draco's wand and his backup (the Elder wand) at the same time. While 
I might not like the logic involved, it's what happened.

As to how the DE's got back their wands, we know the ministry was 
corrupt and had DE's working there. I don't think it would have 
difficult for them to take the wands out of the MoM and return them.

Sirius, mentioned that he picked a wand up along the way. I would 
guess that he stole it. 



> 
> Carol responds:
> If
> she had to claim that the wand was failing Voldemort (or have him 
make
> that claim) without evidence, so be it. But my point is, the wand 
did
> not fail him.

jkoney:
Actually it did fail him. He expected (whether correctly or not) to 
see a big boost in his magic, maybe feel a rush throughout his body 
when he cast a spell.

He didn't notice anything spectacular at all. Therefore the wand did 
fail. It failed to meet his expectations. From Voldemort's position 
that was all that mattered.

> 
>