Disarming spell WAS: Re: Wandlore and more

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 185411

> Alla:
> 
> I am not saying that Harry has an instinct to use Expeliarmus 
either. 
> Of course not, because as you say when he is angry his so called 
> instinct is overcome with anger or whatever. But I think Pippin is 
> spot on here with what she wrote :
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/185405
> 
> "The point is not that Harry is a natural pacifist, the point is 
that
> he *chooses* not to be a killer. As part of that, he chooses not to
> practice spells that would make killing easier."


Magpie:
Oh, I would agree with that too. I don't think there was ever a 
question that Harry was much of a killer. He's basically a normal 
person! So his choosing not to kill just seems like a given, rather 
than any big point about the character. The only characters who 
practice killing are Death Eaters. Even Lupin who is here worrying 
about it, doesn't seem to practice this stuff. (Harry does use 
Sectumsempra in a deadly fashion against the Inferi, though their 
being dead already it doesn't work.) The choice to kill or not hadn't 
even really come up when Harry was escaping from Privet Drive, so I 
wouldn't have thought it was an option for Harry at that point 
anyway. Stunning maybe, which might have been deadly at that height.

But regardless of course Harry does not want to kill Stan in that 
scene. He doesn't even seem to consider him a bad guy--he assumes 
he's under Imperius. I'm just saying that Lupin's warnings about 
Harry being too soft don't lead to anything much in the story. Harry 
never gets into trouble, that I remember, because he's too soft. Not 
even with Voldemort, who Harry does intend to end up dead, even if he 
doesn't kill him himself. He's tricked into killing himself, with 
Harry's approval.

Alla:
> Did not feel that way to me at all. I mean as I said before, it was 
a 
> little wierd that Lupin was the one who said it, but when I think 
> about it, maybe it makes sense, because as Pippin again points out 
> Lupin did want to kill Peter had Harry not stopped him. So, I don't 
> know, it feels more like a rather consistent way to me to set up 
> Harry as not a killer rather than an innocent in a war. 

Magpie:
It's consistent, I agree. I'm just saying it's not much of a dramatic 
conflict so much as a symbolic thing about Harry as a kid and a hero. 
Voldemort will end up dead without Harry killing him (so his soul is 
still intact, just like Draco's) but Harry himself doesn't have to 
struggle much with the question of killing or not. Even when he faces 
Peter again, the guy he protected and is now on the other side. Peter 
is also killed without any of the Trio having to do it.

> Alla:
> 
> I would sort of agree, but not quite, Sokka is not shown to stop 
> anybody from killing anybody, no? I may not remember well, watched 
> Avatar within a week every day few months ago, may have forgotten. 

Magpie:
I hadn't thought about it, but he is the one who senses something too 
violent about Jet and he stands against Katara's plan to hunt down 
the guy to hurt their mother. He flies the Fire Nation blimp close to 
the water before dumping out the soldiers aboard to keep them safe 
when he didn't have to. I would say he proves himself generally 
against killing as much as Harry is. But he still thinks Ozai must be 
killed--just as Voldemort must be killed. Sokka's team gets around 
the problem by taking away Ozai's powers. Harry by Voldemort killing 
himself.

Alla:
> So I honestly feel that Aaang chose easier way than Harry did at 
the 
> end, IMO of course. It is a speculation, but I feel that Harry 
would 
> have liked very much to use Avada on Voldemort to make him pay for 
> all that he did to his friends and whole WW. So in my speculative 
> opinion Harry chose against what he wanted to do and Aaang found a 
> way, creative way of course, but still he found a way to satisfy 
his 
> pacifist nature and not go against it. 

Magpie:
I feel the opposite. Not in terms of which character made the easier 
choice, but which writer. The Avatar choice didn't work for many 
people, but it did show the hero actually finding a way around 
killing when he said he wasn't a killer. Having the killer kill 
himself after the hero shows mercy is a standard Hollywood way around 
it. Which doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it's a bit of a cheat 
which lets the hero retain the position of not being a killer and get 
the benefits of it anyway. And Harry knew it would happen, so the 
only thing he was really giving up was the pleasure of saying "Avada 
Kedavra" himself. 

Unless I'm totally forgetting how DH ends.

clcb58:
I agree that Harry isn't a cold-blooded warrior, but I think his moral
code is broken into different categories -- those who deserve "battle"
spells and those who don't -- and it sets him apart from everyone 
else.

Magpie:
That seems about right. 

-m