To kill or not to kill and resolutions of the storylineWAS :Re: Disarming spell

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 185534

Carol earlier:
> > > > I think not. The narrator says, "They [Charlie and Slughorn] 
seemed to have *returned* at the head of *what looked like* the
families and friends of every Hogwarts student who had returned to
fight, along with the shopkeepers and homeowners of Hogwarts." Note
the narrator's uncertainty, which reflects Harry's. 
> 
> Pippin:
> Hmmm... my copy definitely says "had remained to fight." 
>
Carol responds:
Oops. Yes. It's "remained to fight." But the first "returned" is
correct. Look again at the quotation, quoted correctly this time:

"They [Charlie and Slughorn] seemed to have *returned* at the head of
what looked like the families and friends of every Hogwarts student
who had remained to fight, along with the shopkeepers and homeowners
of Hogwarts."

Charlie, of course, is not returning despite the wording of the
quotation. It's Slughorn who's returning. Where has he gone? To the
Hog's head with the Slytherins (and presumably from there to
Hogsmeade.) Can he and Charlie possibly have recruited all those
people by themselves if they includea anyone other than the students
of Hogsmeade? Can you imagine Slughorn and Charlie somehow knowing how
to find the friends and families of all the students who had remained
at Hogwarts to fight? It makes no sense. They must have had help, and
Slughorn would not have gone for help to the families of students
9other than a few Sluggies) who weren't in his own House. And how
would he or Charlie have known where they lived, in any case? It makes
much more sense for the older students who can Apparate to go for help
to their own families once they've gotten the little kids safely home.

Not counting all the underage kids, the only people who have left the
school and are free to go for help are the Slytherins, some
Ravenclaws, and some Hufflepuffs. The students who "remained to fight"
can't possibly have gone after their own relatives, nor could Harry
know who is who in that crowd.  The only people who could have gone
for reinforcements are those who evacuated to the Hog's head. Those
who stayed at Hogwarts were trapped there. You can't Disapparate of
Hogwarts, and there's no indication that McGonagall sent a Patronus
messenger asking for reinforcements.

You yourself have argued that Harry wouldn't know who those people
were. He can't tell a Ravenclaw from a Slytherin out of context
(especially when they're in their pajamas--which would pretty much
distinguish them from Death Eaters and made any students stand out
clearly had any joined Voldemort's little party in the forest), nor
can he distinguish the parent of a kid he doesn't know from a
Hogsmeade shopkeeper.

Once again, all we have is Harry's hurried and jumbled impression,
complete with "seemed" and "looked like" just before the Centaurs and
House-Elves rush in to add to the chaos. And people expect Harry to
recognize anybody besides Slughorn and Charlie in that melee?

Pippin:

Certainly if JKR had wanted the text to make it obvious that there
were Slytherins in the group, she could have. But that doesn't mean
she wanted to make it crystal clear that there weren't any. She could
have done that too, as easily as she did in describing the Room of
Requirement or the empty Slytherin table.

What she wanted the text to do, IMO, is be open to interpretation. If
you divide the world into good people and Slytherins, as Harry used to
do, then you'll never conceive of the Slytherins coming back to
fight for Hogwarts. <snip>

Carol:
I'm not so sure that the ambiguity is deliberate. It's certainly
consistent with Harry's inability to recognize his fellow students,
including many people even in Gryffindor, however, and realistic given
the tumultuous situation and the fact that the vast majority of faces
in that crowd must have been those of strangers. (It would have been
nice if he'd recognized Madam Rosmerta, too. Must we assume that she
wasn't there just because she wasn't named? Surely she's not still
under the Imperius Curse and hasn't gone over to Voldemort!)

Pippin:
But if the Slytherins are assumed to be capable of learning from their
mistakes, why would they reject a popular leader, Slughorn, and join
instead what everyone now knows is a monster who massacres his own
people and makes war on children?

Only Crabbe is that much of an idiot, IMO.

Carol responds:

I agree. And if the Slytherins' popular and likeable Head of House
makes it clear that he's going back into battle to fight He Who Must
Not Be Named, wouldn't some of them follow? Who knows. Maybe the
Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs had second thoughts, too. They wouldn't
want to be outdone in bravery by Slytherins!

It's just a shame that JKR didn't have Harry recognize, say, Theo Nott
or Blaise Zabini. Had she done so, we wouldn't be having this
conversation.

Carol, who still thinks that if we trust JKR's statement about DD's
sexuality, we should trust her statement that the Slytherins followed
Slughorn