Why Harry would not use Elder Wand? WAS: Re: Wand allegiance.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 187316

> > Alla:
> > 
> > But all those examples that you cited and I snipped do not really work for me, because most of them are really not fights and if in the example of fight one of the participants did have elder wand, how do we know that it will not make a difference?
> 
> Pippin:
> I don't know what you mean by not really fights. Could you explain?

Alla:

What I meant is that for me to see that Elder wand would or would not have made a difference I will at least hypothetically need to see it *in the fight*. For example, sure James would have left any wand on the sofa. But how is it relevant to trying to figure out how much more effective Elder wand would or would not have been in the fight than his regular wand if the fight did not happen? So if hypothetically they would have duelled in canon and James lost and you would have advanced the argument that it does not matter if he duelled with his wand or elder wand, well I would have certainly disagreed with you, but it would have been more relevant IMO.

Same thing with all your other examples, for example how is it relevant that Voldemort and Quirrel would have underestimated Lily's love magic to evaluate how strong the magical gun is, you know?

I can sort of see hypothetical relevance of only one of your examples and even that one to me is barely there, that is Voldemort still giving Harry his wand. Are you sure that if it was Elder wand Voldemort would have given it back to harry? I really doubt it, I think Voldemort even with all his desire to make a silly show out of murdering Harry would have kept that wand to himself. And even if he gave it back to Harry, Priori would not have happened, but who says that Harry would not have defeated him without Priori, at least temporarily (I know he could not permanently defeat him yet due to Horcruxes of course)

Pippin:
>  Whether the Elder Wand would make a difference is what we are discussing -- so far no one has said specifically how they expect the Elder Wand to make a difference. We've already disposed of the idea that no one would dare  to attack Harry if he had it. It might not attract the same enemies, but enemies there would be. 
> 
> 
> Where is the canon that the Elder Wand has defensive powers that other wands do not have? 

Alla:

Right, I know that this is what we are discussing, and eh, I am not advancing the idea that nobody will attack the Harry if he has the wand, it seems silly to me, of course they will IMO. 

All that I am saying though, and I am pretty ambivalent to whether Harry will or will not use it is that Elder wand is more effective weapon that ANY other weapon we had seen so far. I am talking about magical weapons of course. But JKR IMO is saying that Love magic is more effective than any other weapon, which is fine by me, but if we are removing that message, I do not see any logical reasons for Harry not to use the wand  for self defense.

And if this wand has the greatest offensive powers, to me it automatically means that it is the best one for self defense too. IMO of course. You will not be arguing against it having the greatest offensive powers? 

> 
> Alla:
> > But do not get me wrong, I totally see that Harry would not have been using elder wand, only I do not see any justifications that you are bringing it up. I mean, really, the most powerful weapon to defend himself, if it was a different series, I would say - eh why not?
> 
> Pippin:
> Sure! If the Elder Wand was in the hands of a different character, or in a universe where love magic was not so powerful, why not? But in the Potterverse it's not suitable for Harry. Dumbledore was right for the wrong reasons, IMO. Harry would not be tempted to take over the WW, mwahahahaha. But the wand would be a temptation for Harry to indulge the weaknesses he does have: his tendencies to be reckless and to rely too much on his own abilities, ignoring others who could be of help. 


Alla:

Then we disagree more than agree, I think. I do not believe that not using Elder wand  has much to do with "Harry" and that it has everything to do with JKR. In other words, from within the story, I cannot find any reason for Harry to not use it as self defense weapon, besides the fact that JKR wants him to be above it, if that makes sense.

I am glad we agree that Harry will not be tempted to take over the world with it, LOL. I find it another stupid projection of Dumbledore of who he thought Harry was.

But you are saying that Harry can only be reckless if he has elder wand? I completely disagree. I really do not think it matters one way or another, I think if Harry will be reckless he can easily be reckless with his own wand and I think he really learned his lesson after the war about relying on others.

So, in short I remain of the opinion that if JKR was not arguing that Harry's powers should come from different source, I do not see any reasons for Harry not to use the wand for self defense. Or I should say I do not see any **other** reasons for him to not do so.

JMO,

Alla