Why Harry would not use Elder Wand? WAS: Re: Wand allegiance.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 187323

Alla:
For example, sure James would have left any wand on the sofa. But how is it
relevant to trying to figure out how much more effective Elder wand would or
would not have been in the fight than his regular wand if the fight did not
happen?

Pippin:
My point exactly. There's no advantage to superior weapons if the enemy doesn't
give you a chance to use them.

Alla:
I still feel that for me your argument does not work. What do you mean there is no point in it? If I fail to use a gun I have properly against the criminal, does it mean that I should not even bother to keep stronger gun simply because most likely the situation will be the same? 

Oh and I did not mean that Voldemort will not give him a chance, I meant that most likely storyline would not have changed, that's all. Meaning that JKR would have still wanted James to leave any wand on the sofa. From within the story, who knows, maybe James would have been more cautious knowing how strong and powerful his gun is and it will be real bad thing to keep it far from your body.

Power of love as a weapon works just fine for me **on the symbolical, metaphorical level**. Because  I undoubtedly believe that  when one goes out and does incredible things in the name of those we love, be it family, friends or country, well it helps to actually feel those powerful emotions, whether you are risking your life, or just doing whatever needs to be done and sacrificing other  things – your health, your money, whatever it is.

But I mean, nobody would really suggest that soldier on the battlefield, policeman, firefighter, you name it, would go against enemy, against criminal with **only power of love** as their weapon, right? That would be in my opinion very silly to put it mildly and I would say criminally irresponsible and putting their lives in additional unnecessary danger too. I mean, I know I am stating the obvious, but I am just trying to explain why the idea of magic love being a strong weapon can only be a symbol to me, and if we are looking at it under more everyday view, well to me it does not work.

I mean, I know that we are talking about series full of magic, and elder wand is a magical gun too, but to me it is more realistic gun if that makes sense. And any explanation why Harry should not be using it to defend himself, well, I don't know, just not working for me, except when we are saying that we should only look at his powers in symbolic light and not realistic, or as much realism as magic allows.

Pippin:
"The best defense is a good offense" applies to sports and conventional
warfare. It works for an isolated enemy, if the enemy lets you know who he is
and where he can be found. It doesn't help if he's hiding among your friends or
using innocent people as shields. Against the criminals and terrorists that
Harry would be fighting as an auror, canon says the best defense is "constant,
never-ending vigilance."

Alla:

So, what if the terrorist already spotted you? You would not think that using the most powerful gun will still be a good idea?

Pippin:
If Harry could treat the Elder Wand with the care it deserves, and not mishandle
it the way he mishandled most of the other magical items that came his way, he
could be as safe a guardian for it as Dumbledore was. But Harry doesn't have
the innate caution or the self-discipline that Dumbledore had. 

Alla:

So what kind of the innate caution Harry does not have that Dumbledore did? Would it be the same innate caution that made Dumbledore put the ring on his finger the moment he had it? Without taking a second to think that , I don't know it could be a horcrux?  What kind of discipline Harry did not have that Dumbledore did? Would it be the same discipline that made Dumbledore to ask  **already targeted** James to lend cloak to him? Without taking some time to restrain him and think that maybe, just maybe cloak may come in handy to him and his family if the attack may happen?

And still as you said, Dumbledore managed just fine to be a good guardian for a wand. Something tells me that Harry could have managed no worse, IMO of course.


Pippin:
Plus he'd be
under pressure from Ron, who lusts for victory, and Hermione, who thinks she
knows what's best for everybody without the trouble of asking them. Now, if you want to say they have all learned their lessons and will not act
like that any more, fine. But I don't think so. The lesson you learn in the
Potterverse is not how to get over your weaknesses. Instead you learn what your
weaknesses are, and not to put yourself in situations where they will get the
better of you.

Alla:

He will be under innate pressure from Ron and Hermione to constantly use the wand? I just do not think so. I totally agree with you about one of the lessons in Potterverse to learn what your weaknesses are and not to get yourself into the situations, however, I also think (or at least I hope) that some growth and maturity occurs for the characters. Ron may still bicker with Hermione and hide from her the exact way of him passing the driving test in the epilogue, but I sincerely doubt that Ron in his middle thirties will abandon his friends again had the war to happen, because he will think that his wife loves his best friend better than him. I totally agree that they still have weaknesses, but yes, I think that they got over acting as kids all the time and the behavior that you are describing to me is how they would have acted as teenagers. IMO of course.

Pippin:
In any case, carrying the wand increases the chances that someone will be able
to take it from Harry, and that person will almost certainly *not* be a safe
guardian.

The defenses of Hogwarts have stood for a thousand years and never fallen to
assault, so I think we can say that they work better defensively than the Elder
Wand itself, which has been captured many times. The spells guarding Hogwarts
never sleep, never get tired or distracted or ill, and evidently do not weaken
with age. Harry is not going to be so durable. <SNIP>

Alla:

Oh, **now** we are talking. :) Sure, if Harry is concerned that he is not unstoppable and it is simply dangerous to allow the possibility of elder wand  to pass to somebody else, I can see him doing it. However, I have to put a qualifier, if Harry is doing that, I think he is doing that realizing that he is sacrificing his own defenses to a degree. That would be totally in character for Harry to do, martyr as he is, but  I still think that for his own self defense elder wand would have done just fine.

JMO,

Alla