Snape and Dumbledore and prophecy WAS: Re: Snape and Marauders

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 186930

Alla:
>
> Absolutely! If he **does not bother** to check what Snape overheard, he is
bearing part of the blame for Potters deaths, I totally agree.
>
> The thing is, I really do not think canon tells us with certainty that he
**does not bother** to check.


Montavilla47:

It seems to me that if he *does* bother to check, he's even more
responsible!

Alla:

Sure, if that means that he checks and deliberately lets Snape get away, yes he is even more responsible. The scenario when he is not responsible or somewhat responsible to me is when he does not predict what is going to happen within minutes and does not do anything due to  not getting his wits together, if that makes sense.

Montavilla47:
Why are you making excuses for this man?

Alla:

Why are you prescribing to me the intentions that I do not have in this case? I see nothing wrong with making excuses for fictional character that is when I truly think that his actions are excusable. In those instances I was and will be making such excuses. For example, no matter how wrong Harry was with Infamous Crucio, I am convinced that his actions are completely excusable and did say so and will say so.

But here I have completely different situation. I surely would like for Dumbledore not to let Snape get away deliberately, because to me this is quite a monstrous deed. However, if I think that this is what happened, then this is what happened. I am just **not sure** in good faith that this is what truly happened.

Oh and  as an aside, but I think relevant aside, since we are also discussing Snape's deed here, I guess imagining what Snape thought when he related the Prophecy as him having no idea what Voldemort will do to Prophecy couple and their kid is an excuse too? 

I thought we were discussing *what ifs* here since canon does not tell us enough about what various characters did and think, but I guess what we are really doing here are making excuses.

Montavilla47:
 Snape didn't disapparate. He was *thrown* from the building.

Alla:

Yes, I know. I meant he disapparated after he was thrown from the building.

Montavilla47:
If he was thrown from the building, then someone (probably
Aberforth) had his hands on him. Sybil says that Snape was in her
room long enough for her to come out of her trance and recognize
some of what was going on. That's long enough for Dumbledore
(who isn't even in a trance) to understand that Snape overheard
what happened in the last few minutes. <SNIP>

Alla:

It is still matter of minutes, everything that occurred, no? . If you think that Dumbledore during the matter of those few minutes could have imagined everything that  may happen later on – Snape reporting the Prophecy, Voldemort acting on it, etc, well that is your interpretation and that is surely one of the possibilities.

If I think that Dumbledore does not always react in a matter of seconds, and does not always react correctly and cannot always predict what is going to happen as a result of his actions, well it is my interpretation.  I am quite angry at Dumbledore for example for taking Cloak to research from James, but even I would not say that Dumbledore imagined that attack will happen so soon and that it will happen at all. 

I took Dumbledore to task for many of his deeds and if I were  **sure** that your scenario is correct, well that will be another monstrous deed of his IMO.

I am just NOT sure, that's all. 

Aberworth and Dumbledore do not even have the best communications after Ariana's death. Yes, they became civil to each other, but I can totally see say Aberworth being so mad that he thrown Snape out without even asking Albus first what to do, Albus thinking (maybe or maybe not) that Snape needs to be obliviated, but being too late.

Montavilla:
And, as Lealess said, Dumbledore was *quite* aware that Snape
had overheard and taken at least part of the Prophecy to Voldemort
when they met in the woods. His only concern at that point was
*how much* of the Prophecy Voldemort knew. <SNIP>

Alla:

How many times Dumbledore is shown being surprised through the books?  I can count one so far. I could be wrong. If he does not show shock after what Snape tells him, to me it does not mean that he indeed was not surprised, more like he hold his surprise to himself.
I would like some canon for Dumbledore being aware that Snape took Prophecy to Voldemort before Snape says it.