What triggered ancient magic? WAS: Re: James and Intent

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 187008

Carol responds:

I'm not saying that Snape helped the magic to work, not even unintentionally.
I'm just saying that his going to Voldemort gave Lily the choice to live, which
Voldemort would not have given to Lily otherwise. He would just have killed her
without thought as he killed James, in which case there would have been no
ancient magic because Lily's death would not have been her choice and therefore
a sacrifice. <SNIP>

Alla:

Right, well, I am not disputing that without Snape giving Voldemort a prophecy first and asking him for Lily's life second gave Lily's chance to live. 
But I am disputing that Snape was a  figure without whom there would have been no ancient magic if that makes sense.

What I am trying to say is that of course I know that he contributed to set of the circumstances which led to the magic, that's not my point. My point is that I think that any **reason** under which Lily would have been given a choice to step aside and did not step aside would have lead to ancient magic.

For example, we speculated wildly as to why Lily was given a choice before DH came out and we knew for sure that Snape asked for her life, yes?

One of the speculations I remember was that Lily worked in the Department of Mysteries, researched the veil and other fun things and Voldemort wanted her alive because he wanted to know results of her research or something like that.

So, here is what I am saying, say it was true, say this was the reason why Lily was asked to step aside and did not, do you think that magic would not have worked? If so, *this** what I would like to see a canon, why a willing sacrifice (which yes, I know JKR distinguished in interview from James' sacrifice) of this nature would not work.

Let me stress this again, I *know* that willing sacrifice seems to be the key, what I am disagreeing with is the uniqueness of Snape's contribution to this sacrifice, I mean NOT that he contributed, but why any other hypothetical reasons under which Voldemort would have given her a  choice would not work.

Montavilla47:
<SNIP>
We see other mothers protecting their children without Voldemort getting
vaporized. The sacrifice that James made in protecting his family did not
trigger the magic, either.

Alla:

Actually, while I am sure mothers died protecting their children, could you tell me where else in the book we see mothers sacrificing their lives for their children? It seems to me that while any mother could have been in Lily's shoes, what she did was indeed pretty unique on pages.

But sure, I know that James' sacrifice did not trigger the magic.

Montavilla47:
The thing that distinguishes Lily's sacrifice is that she was given a choice
and she chose to protect her child.

Alla:

Yes.

Montavilla47:
So, I'm not saying that it was Snape and Voldemort who triggered the
special blood protection. It was Snape's request, *plus* Voldemort's
agreement to that request, *plus* Lily's refusal to step aside, *plus*
Voldemort's breaking his word to Snape that triggered the magic.

Alla:

If you are using triggered as meaning Snape and Voldemort contributing to the set of circumstances that led to magic, I agree. Snape gave Voldemort the prophecy and then came to beg for Lily's life.  If you are using triggered as started the magic, I do not agree. In my opinion we are not shown for sure what started the magic besides Lily's sacrifice.

I do not know that  any other reason for giving Lily a choice to step aside would not have made magic possible. 

Pippin:
Lily didn't just instinctively throw herself in the way, as any mother might
have done. She consciously cast her life between them, and though she couldn't
know for certain it would have a magical effect, I think part of the magic came
from her intention that it would. She chose not only to die, but to trust love
alone to defend her son.

Alla:

Oh, that's a good point.

Pippin:
There would have been no love magic if Lily had not believed she could save
herself by stepping aside, and Snape is responsible for seeing that she had that
choice. But if Voldemort had honored his promise and simply stunned her when she
refused to step aside, I think the magic would have worked just the same.

Alla:

Right, to me Lily's intentions are the key to the magic and everything else are circumstances that led to it, but I am very interested in hearing if you think that if Voldemort had other reasons for giving her that choice, if you think magic would have still worked.

Thanks

Alla