James and Intent

[jkoney65]

No: HPFGUIDX 187020

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jkoney65" <jkoney65@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > jkoney: 
> > > > We see that it is Snape in SWM who draws his wand first, not James. Sirius doesn't cast a spell. So it is one on one. Not two on one. While James is apparently more skilled with a wand (drawing faster the first time and flipping Snape upside down after he's been attacked from behind while Snape had his wand out).
> > > 
> > > Carol responds:
> > > I don't think so. The narrator, speaking from Harry's pov, says that James started it all simply because Sirius said he was bored. Severus draws his wand because James and Sirius are standing over him, apparently with their wands out--a defensive reaction "as if he were expecting an attack." Severus has to drop his bag and plunge his hand inside his robes, and even though the narrator notes that he reacted extremely fast, James has the advantage. He shouts "Expelliarmus!" which would have been pointless if his wand weren't already out. And Sirius follows immediately, hitting the Severus with Impedimenta as he dives for his wand. That's two on one in my view. 
> > 
> > jkoney:
> > Actually the text says they stood up. It doesn't say they drew their wands. 
> > 
> > Snape went for his wand and James disarmed him. Sirius laughted. Then when Snape went for his wand an Impedimenta was cast. I read it as James casting the spell, although after several readings I can see why you might think it was Sirius. Then they walked up to him.
> > 
> > It was Snape who walked towards them across the grass from the "shadows of the bushes." He could have easily walked away from them. He may have reacted so fast because he was looking for a fight. Otherwise why not walk away?
> 
> Carol responds:
> I don't even know how to react to this reading. Severus was studying his notes. Sirius looked at him "like a dog that has scented a rabbit" and says, "Excellent. Snivellus." Severus stows away his papers and emerges from the shadows. James and Sirius stand up (surely they have their wands in their hands, stated or not), 

jkoney:
Sirius says Snivellus softly, so we know Snape didn't hear him. He then packs his bag and proceeds across the lawn. He is near enough that James and Sirius stand up. If their wands were out Harry would have mentioned it. So we know that they are still in their pockets.

Carol
 When James says loudly, "All right, Snivellus?"  it's not some friendly greeting. He reacts by dropping his bag and starting to pull out his wand. There's nothing about James thinking *he's* being attacked. 

jkoney:
Yes, James was insulting him. We see Draco do this all the time and no one pulls out a wand. So this is going to be a verbal sparring match until Snape goes for his wand. James is quicker on drawing his wand and disarms him. If someone is pulling their wand on me, I'm going to think he is going to attack. It's a very reasonable assumption.

Carol
He obviously already has his wand in his hand. JKR doesn't need to say so. It's a given. As I said before, Harry knows that his father attacked Snape and not the other way around:

jkoney:
Why is it obvious that he has his wand out. It's not stated. He was playing with the snitch right before this and we know the wand wasn't out then.

Harry knows? Isn't our narrator unreliable? Doesn't Harry often mistake information that he's seen or heard, especially when he doesn't have all the facts.


> Carol:
> "Harry tried to make a case for Snape having deserved what he had suffered at James's hands--but hadn't Lily asked, "What's he done to you?" And hadn't James replied, "It's more the fact that he *exists*, if you know what I mean?' 

jkoney:
Lupin tells us that "Snape was a special case, I mean he never lost an opportunity to curse James, so you couldn't really expect James to take that lying down, could you?"

So we know that Snape was also a bully. 

We can now see why "the fact that he exists" comes into play. They both curse each other all the time. And they do it because the other exists.

I also wonder why Snape followed them down after the test. Sat near them and then walked past them when he left the shadows and reacted like he was expecting an attack. It almost seems like Snape wanted a confrontation after the incident a week before.

jkoney, who is glad he's re-read the scene numerous times to see that while definitely not James' finest hour it also isn't nearly as bad as people seem to remember.