What triggered ancient magic? WAS: Re: James and Intent

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 187068

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Potioncat:
> > There still is a difference between how we see Snape's feelings for Lily. Yes, in romantic love, a person wants the other person. Generally they want each other. But in this case, romantic love hasn't worked out, or perhaps Severus's love for Lily had never become a romantic love. Yet he still has a love for her. A love for an old friend. So I don't think he had "wanted" her all those years.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Ah, but my question is here how do you know that the love he has for her is the love of the old friend? I mean if we are still speculating, sure that is one of the possibilities, but I find it interesting that I cannot find in canon that this is how Snape's love is characterised, you know?
> 
> I mean, I totally think it is possible, but is there something in there which is a direct counterpoint against my speculation?
> 
> Now that I said it, I realise that I am not exactly sure what my speculation is since I am struggling with defining how I see Snape's love for Lily.
> 
> I mean, one thing I am sure of is that I definitely see strong obsessive undertones to it, but as I also said I see undertones of courtly love - his love for Lily guided him to do better things, etc, etc.
> 
> To be honest with you it is the hardest for me to see that his love was only the love of the old friend, although sure I can see that it could be true under certain circumstances.

Julie:
Snape is quite an odd character, when you think about it (and that's not a bad thing). He's supposed to be this big, bad Death Eater who has an obsessive love for a Muggleborn girl who has rejected him to marry his worst enemy. And what does Snape do? Does he hate her and shift the blame to her, this mere "Mudblood" girl who would dare reject HIM, her better (at least he has one Wizarding parent and she has none!), who'd deigned to offer his friendship and love despite here inferior status? Alternately, does he obsessively pine after her, come up with ways to sabotage her relationship with his hated enemy, keep some crazy altar filled with bits of her possessions he's stolen? Does he hurt or kill James so no one can have Lily if he can't, does he dose Lily with Love potions or Imperio her to love him?

Before DH came out, my argument against Snape loving Lily was that a guy with his background and personality wouldn't just take that kind of rejection lying down. Yet that is just what he did. Snape was, dare I say it, noble. Which is why I do see Snape's love as a courtly type of love far more than an obsessive type of love. The obsession only kicked in once Voldemort targeted the Potters, and the obsession was with keeping her alive, and later with atoning for her death and his part in it--with gaining her forgiveness in a sense, not with gaining her love (which he'd already lost and blamed no one but himself for losing). 

I think this is what Harry also perceives later when he sees Snape's memories. Snape's love was never about possessing Lily. It was, for want of another word, a pure love. (And, yes, he ignored Harry and James fate when he initially went to Dumbledore, but given his lack of effort to "win" Lily back after she'd rejected him, this seems to be not because Snape thought he could eventually take their place in Lily's heart, but because he wasn't thinking at all beyond "I must save Lily! I must save Lily!") He loved her truly because of who she was, not for what he could get from her, which is why he so willingly let her go with no more than that single, hopeless plea outside the Gryffindor common room.  

IMO :-)

Julie