Ron and Harry and that flying car

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 187112

kennyg wrote:
<snip>
> 
> How did Ron and Harry get onto the Hogwarts grounds??
> 
> We know from GoF that DD placed charms around the entrances.  We also know that even in the first three books that the students are safe at Hogwarts.  And of course, no one can Apparate into Hogwarts.

<snip>

Carol responds:

Zanooda mentioned Charlie and his friends flying in on broomsticks in SS/PS. There's another instance of something much bigger flying onto the Hogwarts grounds: Madame Maxime's house-sized flying coach with its flying horses. And, of course, the Thestrals fly Harry and his friends to the Ministry in OoP--presumably, the Thestrals fly home afterward. That must be how Harry's friends returned to Hogwarts though Harry himself goes by portkey!

So though I agree with you that it makes little sense to have anti-Apparition spells on Hogwarts but no anti-flying charms, I don't think the anti-flying charms were put in place until HBP, when Snape informed Dumbledore that Draco was under orders to kill him. Since Draco was unlikely to act without DE backup, Dumbledore took unusual precautions to keep them out: anti-flying spells, chains on the gates, anti-climbing spells on the walls, guarding the secret passages into the school (how he knew about them all, I don't know).

I think that until then, Dumbledore relied on the ancient protections against harm to students and staff that Snape mentions to Harry during one of the Occlumency lessons but doesn't specify. (We don't know of any student other than Moaning Myrtle who's actually died in the school itself or on the grounds; Cedric was far away when he was killed.) And in CoS, Voldemort was still in vapor form, having left Quirrel's body. The danger in CoS comes from a source that DD didn't anticipate, the diary.

The first new protective measures appear to have been taken in PoA against Sirius Black, who nevertheless was still able to get into the school twice. I don't recall additional spells being placed in GoF, but maybe DD put them there after Wormtail escaped. And you'd think that additional spells would have been placed after LV was restored to his body, but the only new spells I recall were placed in HBP. And those seem to have dissolved when Dumbledore died--there were no chains on the gate to keep the Death Eaters from escaping. (Either that or Snape removed them so that Draco could escape and the DEs would leave the grounds, but I think Harry would have noticed if he did that.) Anyway, as of CoS, no new protective measures have been added. The DEs aren't active (they think that LV is dead). Lucius Malfoy (who is busy making trouble on his own) has no trouble getting into Hogwarts.

(Aside to Pippin: I do think that Filch's Dark detectors would have detected the Dark magic in the diary, but they weren't in use then. It was, after all, not just a Horcrux. It was enchanted, as LV told Lucius Malfoy, to open the Chamber of Secrets and release the monster--which is why it wasn't hidden like the other Horcruxes, just held in reserve until LV was ready to use it. Harry had no such Dark spells on him, and the soul bit in him had not been placed there by Dark magic. Just my opinion.)

Carol, just letting her thoughts flow and not presenting any coherent argument