Courtly love in Potterverse WAS: What triggered ancient magic

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 187185

Pippin:
You think a person can not dislike dogs in general, but have a soft spot for one
particular pooch? It's inevitable that they'll turn on that dog eventually?

I agree with you on your specific example, because someone who says "Jews are
inferior" is most likely being hostile on purpose. But that's in our society,
where equality is a right, and expressions of bias against people are considered
crude and everyone knows it.

But that's not the situation in Snape's world. When Slughorn says "You mustn't
think I'm prejudiced" he really believes he isn't, IMO. When he says that it's
surprising a Muggleborn would do so well, that's based on what he thinks is
observable, empirical evidence. <SNIP>


Alla:
Do I really need to address dogs' analogy? But yes, if I knew that person thinks that dogs as a group are disgusting, evil, inferior creatures, I would have had a hard time believing that person may love one dog.

And I really do not care if Slugghorn does not realize that he is prejudiced. I think what matters is that us readers realize that he is prejudiced, no? Moreover, *Harry* seems to realize that he is prejudiced and I think that it supposed to mean that author wants for WW eventually to realize that to, IMO

I do not know if Slugghorn surprise is based on the empirical evidence, but again, who cares even if he **thinks** that he has that evidence and not just parroting what he had been taught.

Let me give you a real life example, out of approximately 500 people in my law school  class we had (roughly, of course I do not remember for sure) probably twenty or less black people there. You will not be arguing of course that this can be taken as any sort of **evidence** that black people do not do well in the studies of law,  or not smart enough to get into law school in the first place?

So, if somebody is stupid enough not to recognize the underlying reasons why this is still happening which has nothing to do with the intelligence, talent, drive, why am I supposed to cut this character a slack? If this character cannot let go of his prejudices I mean? At the most I may pity the character IF such character does not engage into active acts of hatred against the group, like I pity Slughorn, but Snape did engage in those acts, he joined the evil gang for goodness sake. Of course before you say so, he came back, but we are talking about the times when Snape and Lily split up and for the views Snape had at the time I have nothing but contempt, IMO of course. 

But again, I surely recognize that my views on this matter are strongly influenced by personal experiences.  If I know that person thinks that the ethnic group I belong to is inferior in any way, shape or form, there is absolutely no way I will extend a friendly affection to such person. I will not waste my time on trying to explain why it is so very wrong to think of the whole group of people that way, I will just ignore this person unless I absolutely have to interact with such person, but it is not going to be interaction in a social way.

This all makes me look at Snape and Lily interactions and think that Lily indeed was a Saint for sticking with Snape for years.  This is certainly much more than I would have done, but I realize that we apparently differ on what Snape's views were in the first place.

Pippin:
<SNIP>
Snape and Slughorn could see that Lily was brilliant, but they'd also see a lot
of Muggleborn students who weren't, and they'd attribute their struggles to the
fact that they were Muggleborn. It wouldn't take much to think that Muggleborns
were naturally weaker at magic, considering the cultural disadvantages that
Muggleborns face, and which Snape and Slughorn probably never thought about. I
don't suppose anyone vets the OWLs and NEWTs for cultural bias. They probably
never even heard of such a thing.

Alla:

Well, first of all I think it is a very big and largely unsupported assumption to make that they see a lot of muggleborn students struggling at magic and being weaker students. As you said, canon gives two exceptionally talented muggleborns witches and rather than assume that canon does not play fair, I will make an assumption that this is exactly what author wants to show based on the few representatives of the group. Just as I assume that Draco Malfoy was meant to be a typical Slytherin based on whom we were meant to create an opinion about Slytherin house.

But say that they do see some muggleborn students who are weaker (although I definitely would like some canon on this and not conceding to it), this is justifies them how?

So they cannot comprehend that they have no right to decide that the group of people cannot be deemed inferior, I think that is their problem, society problem, etc.

Pippin:
<SNIP>
So yes, Snape learned that Muggleborns were inferior, but he wasn't taught
that as a philosophy, IMO, he was taught that as a fact, like "cats are fuzzy". <SNIP>

Alla:

What is the saying? You say potato I say potato? What difference does it make if he was taught as a philosophy or fact? 

Pippin:
<SNIP>
I don't think that Snape calling Lily Mudblood has to prove that he'd always
detested Muggleborns. What, you think she called him Snivellus because she
always had something against people with big noses? She called him that because
she knew it would hurt.

Alla:

Eh, I guess we just have to agree to disagree on that. Again, call it personal projection if you wish, but in my life long experience, person who calls you the vile name based on your belonging to social group or race, or whatever usually cannot stand this group.

But I certainly agree that Lily called him because she knew it would hurt. If I knew that there is a group of people with big noses who are being discriminated against in WW, I would have thought otherwise.


JMO,

Alla