Harry Potter and Stoicism

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 185957

> Alla:
> But I mean, if I understood Kern correctly, then books should show 
> that emotions can be destructive in the major way. And we saw it 
> several times, but I would say not in a major way (IMO of course). 
> Like we see Peter being scared and letting the fear overcome him and 
> betray his friends, in fact we see Marauders' friendship being torn 
> apart by conflicting emotions, no?

Zara:
First, general comment...I may need to get this book. I've not read it, 
and so cannot comment on whether individual arguments in it are 
strained, but the premise as you describe it seems sound. Not so much 
that I think Rowling is a Stoic and consciously tried to write that 
way, but that ideas from that school are shown in the series (it is an 
old and influential school of philosophy that has influenced many 
others, including Christian theologians).

Now to adress the particular point you make...I think the 
destructiveness of emotions not ruled by reason is all over the series. 
Look at Voldemort, for example. Consider his fear of death (how much 
more contrary to "living in agreement with nature" can one get, than to 
make Horcruxes in order to avoid death?). And he is arrogant, causing 
him to make mistakes repeatedly that lead to his eventual downfall. He 
is destructive both to all around him, and to himself.

I would point to the two guys who won our respective hearts, as two 
additional examples. You point to some vague "conflicting emotions" 
that tear the Marauders apart, but overlook to me a much bigger 
Marauder-related deal. Sirius, upon discovering the death of the 
Potters and deducing Peter's betrayal, acts in the grip of violent, 
negative emotions which he does not remotely govern by his faculty of 
reason <bg>, with dreadful consequences, not least of all to himself, 
when little Peter proves a tougher target than Sirius imagined. That 
one thing that helps him stay sane in Azkaban is the knowledge of his 
own innocence, is also a Stoic idea. (Virtue is a necessary and 
sufficient condition for happiness, in Stoic philosophy). Finally, his 
disintegration at 12 GP, his treatment of Kreacher, etc. are all 
examples of Sirius succumbing to negative emotions caused by his 
difficult past with his family. He sets up the situation that permits 
the creation of Voldemort's plan to lure Harry to the Ministry. And 
they demonstrably make Sirius less happy than he might have been.

Turning now to my boy Sev...at least to me, his fall seems very 
definitely associated to allowing negative emotions, including ambition 
for wordly success, jealousy, anger, and humiliation, to rule over his 
reason (there is an inherent contradiction in aspiring to Death 
Eaterdom while one's best friend and love object, whom one respects 
for, among other things, her great magical power, is Muggleborn). Like 
Sirius, Sev is not a happy man - and it seems to me that in his case, 
it is his consciousness of his own past misdeeds that drives this. 
(That virtue is necessary and sufficient for happiness goes hand in 
hand with the idea that vice causes unhappiness.)

There is also a contrast between Albus and Sev, that I see, anyway, 
that goes to the Stoic idea of making reason rather than the passions 
be one's guide. Both of these two characters in their youths had major 
failures to act in accordance with a Stoic idea of virtue (they'd  
posit Albus had a natural obligation to care for his sister, I 
believe). Both he and Sev live with unhappiness caused by this type of 
knowledge, but Albus (at least by the time he is over 100) is handling 
this better (most of the time, he did slip up with the Ring). He is a 
respected, widely loved, influential figure, whereas Sev makes his 
personal relationships more difficult than they need to be in a manner 
I would have to suggest, despite my fondness for Sev, is not always 
consonant with reason.

> Alla:
> But at the same time we have that Love being major theme, and of 
> course sacrifice, etc. Now I do not think that books having major 
> christian themes would have contradicted characters showing stoicism 
> virtues, etc, but isn't sacrificial love especially being shown as a 
> good thing and nothing to be restrained of, but in fact cultivated 
> etc?

Zara:
Is sacrifical love a "passion"? I tend to doubt it. To me it seems that 
it, and the general attitude towards death the series appears to me to 
promote, are both quite consistent with "living in agreement with 
nature". 

I am without my copy of DH at present, but my recollection of Harry's 
walk into the Forest (surely the quitessential moment of sacrificial 
love in the series) suggests Harry was being rather Stoic. First, while 
he feels shocked and betrayed, he immediately and explicitly recognizes 
the *reason* for Albus's plan, and finds it sound, even elegant. 
Second, we find him striving *not* to dwell on those he loves (I seem 
to recall, anyway - for example, he does not dare approach Ginny, I 
always thought because he feared it would break his resolve, which too 
I find Stoic.)

Thanks for a thought-provoking new topic!