Secrets (Long) OLD POST REPOST

[mesmer44]

No: HPFGUIDX 186522

> jkoney wrote:
> > I am saying that Snape along with everyone else didn't investigate the matter and thought (not knew) that Sirius was guilty.
> > 
> > If Snape is as distraught as he is shown, I would think he would like to know for sure. He has contacts among the DE's, he could bring it up either directly or in a roundabout way to see who knew what.
> > 
> > The difference is in the degree of certainty. I may believe in UFO's based on the evidence that other people present. But if I'm driving down a country road and there's one in the middle of the road and they take me inside the ship, I would know that they exist not just believe they do.
> 
> Carol responds:
> Considering that Sirius Black apparently blew up a street, killing twelve Muggles and his supposedly innocent friend, leaving nothing but a finger and left the scene laughing like a maniac (well-known "facts" that even Stan Shunpike was familiar with) and that Dumbledore himself had testified that Black was the Secret Keeper, I see no reason why Snape would want or need to investigate further.
> 
> Nor do I think that many DEs knew the identity of Voldemort's Order spy. Bellatrix, coming to Azkaban some months after the Potters' murder, screams about "Wormtail," and perhaps the Lestrange brothers do, too (Barty Jr. more likely screams that he's innocent and quickly succumbs to the Dementors). That doesn't necessarily mean that they knew who Wormtail was, and other DEs might not even have heard the nickname "Wormtail." As Karkaroff says at his hearing, Voldemort kept the identity of many of his DEs secret. It makes sense that the real name of a spy and traitor who was also the friend of the people Voldemort was most eager to kill would be kept as secret as possible, just as Snape's role as spy for Dumbledore was known only to the Wizengamot and not to the Order (or to that busybody, Rita Skeeter, who would have publicized it to the whole WW).
> 
> At any rate, canon indicates that Snape did not know the identity of the spy despite suspecting the identity of the makers of the Marauder's Map (for "men" who knew his identity and insulted him? who else could they be?), and, for the reasons given in my first paragraph, he had no reason to investigate it further.
> 
> Just as Harry "knew" in DH that Snape had treacherously murdered Dumbledore and wanted revenge, Snape "knew" that Sirius Black had betrayed Lily Potter to her death--and wanted revenge.
> 
> Carol, who thinks that Snape and Harry had a great deal in common, as Harry must have subconsciously realized after his visit to the Pensieve in "The Prince's Tale"

Steve replies:

Harry "knew" that Snape had cast the spell that resulted in DD's death because Harry saw him do it in front of his own eyes.  He didn't know that Snape had treacherously murdered DD, he assumed that.  He didn't find out til late in DH why Snape had cast that spell.  Snape did not "know" that Sirius Black had betrayed Lily Potter to her death in the same way that Harry knew Snape had AK'd DD.  Isn't Snape going on circumstantial and other kinds of evidence, not first hand observation when he believed that Sirius had betrayed Lily? There was no obvious motive for Sirius to betray people he loved and considered a 2nd family. 

Sirius's wand was never checked to see if it was the one that had cast the spell that killed all the muggles. Sirius was never questioned under veritas serum that I recall. No proof was given that I'm aware of that Sirius was the secret keeper at the time that the Potter's were killed by LV, only that Sirius was at one time their secret keeper.So, Snape didn't actually "know" for an absolute fact that Sirius had betrayed the Potters.  Snape just assumed (as did many others) that Sirius was guilty based on certain circumstantial evidence and in the absence of another suspect (Wormtail)and any actual proof to the contrary of what "apparently" happened.

Snape is the professor of a very exact science of Potion making.  Would he assume a potion was made correctly or incorrectly w/o testing it thorougly first? He wouldn't say a potion was done wrong if he didn't in fact actually know that it was done wrong.  So I don't believe Snape "knew" at all that Sirius had betrayed Lily and James.  And Harry's subconsious knowledge wasn't revealed in canon that I was aware of.