Sadism or not WAS: Re: Lack of re-examination

[mesmer44]

No: HPFGUIDX 186623

<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> a_svirn:
> But that only means that McGonagall is indiscriminative in her abuse, whereas
> Snape has some preferences. Still they both indulge in humiliating and
> inflicting emotional pain on a student – which in your book amounts to sadism.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not really, no. I see Snape smirking plenty of times when he deals with Harry for example, I do not remember McGonagall once enjoying what she has to do.
> 
> The fact that McGonagall is indiscriminative in her punishment  is the reason why I called it borderline abuse, I know it is mirky line, but that is why in my mind it is a **little bit** better than what Snape does, not much of course, just a little bit. Of course if she was enjoying the pain of the students, whether she gives it to everybody or to some people, I would still call it sadism.
> 
> Oh and by the way, here is the online definition of sadism that I am working with:
> "a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object) — compare MASOCHISM2 a: delight in cruelty b: excessive cruelty"
> 
> 
> Number two (a) is the one that I think  is applicable to Snape. Number two (b) is rather unconventional of course, so I do not think it is a widely spread definition, but before you ask, yes, if  you think that what McGonagall did was excessive cruelty, it is of course can be applied to her. I think it was cruel, I just do not think  it was excessively cruel. But it is mirky of course.
> 
> a_svirn:
> You seem to be saying that meeting out abusive and emotionally painful
> punishments indiscriminately is not sadism, while doing the same thing to a few
> select victims is? 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> No, I do not, see above
> 
> A_svirn:
> Not that McGonagall wasn't occasionally creative when it came
> to punishments. That night's outing to the Forbidden Forest? Not only it
> literally put her students' lives in jeopardy – I mean, there was someone out
> there desperate enough to kill Unicorns! – but just imagine how utterly scared
> Draco must have been! In the Forest at night with his worst enemies and a
> gigantic gamekeeper who is not known for his love of Slytherins, and who had
> moreover a grievance against Draco. I think he was every bit as scared as
> Neville was when Snape threatened to poison his toad.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I bet Draco was scared! I however do not remember canon supporting the idea that McGonagall enjoyed him being scared.
>
Steve replies:

    I agree that Draco was scared.  I also don't remember canon supporting the idea that McGonagall enjoyed him being scared, or in general that she enjoyed inflicting pain or punishment on the students.  I think the dsciplinary action by McDonagall was done by the author to have what happened in the happen do so, it furthered the plot.  I don't think a plot device is enough to go into a whirlwind of supposition about McGonagall being sadistic.  In looking at McGonagall's pattern of behavior as a professor, she has the student's best interests at heart and for some teachers that calls for disciplinary measures.  Just because a teacher is strict at times doesn't mean that they are sadistic.  And the students were with an armed Hagrid afterall, they weren't just sent into the forest on their own w/o wands.