Lack of re-examination (was:Re: Secrets (Long) OLD POST REPOST)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 186627

> >>Carol earlier:
> > <snip>
> > And Harry isn't given time to rethink it. <snip>

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But that's why I blame JKR.  She should have *made* time, maybe not the end of GoF, maybe later on in the series, but just some point where Harry reevaluates things. <snip>

> >>Carol again:
> <snip> I think you're forgetting the traumatic events that Harry went through, first in the graveyard and then with "Moody" when he returns. <snip>

Betsy Hp:
No, I'm not. I'm really, really not. :)  I realize Harry had his hands full immediately after Fake!Moody was revealed as evil rather than cool.  What I label a mistake on JKR's part is leaving that as the end of things. (Well, except for the little addendum in the next book that, Death Eater or not, he was still a cool teacher.)

But I think it was a mistake made because JKR herself didn't see any need to reexamine Fake!Moody's actions unless they directly impacted Harry.  IOWs, I don't see anything to suggest JKR wanted or expected her readers to reread the "ferret scene" and feel Draco was actually being badly treated.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I'm neither asking for an overarching moral end nor an Aesop's Fable. I'm asking for Harry to *think*, to think about the very things you're saying JKR wanted her reader thinking about. <snip>

> >>Carol:
> But, as I said, Harry is not a good judge of character and he doesn't have time or reason to think about Crouch Jr. once he's been exposed and soul-sucked. <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Harry had *plenty* of time to rethink things!  Years even.  There were plenty of places JKR could have stuck in some scenes where Harry thinks.  Unless, of course, she felt Harry had no reason to rethink his reactions to Couch Jr.  After all, his issue with the man is over, so why reread (sorry, rethink *g*) what's been and done?  Which is why I seriously doubt JKR meant for her readers to do an intense rereading of her books.  Everything you need to know she tells the reader (and Harry) at the end of each book.  If there's anything vitally important we need to know a book or two down the series she'll restate it.  For example, Fake!Moody was a good teacher. ;p

> >>Carol, who thinks that Draco's squeals of pain speak for themselves in a rereading of the bouncing ferret scene

Betsy Hp:
I agree.  Many, many thoughtful and careful readers of the series do not.  (See any discussion of this scene on this list.)  And I think those readers are hewing carefully to the text.  Per the text we *shouldn't* be too moved by Draco's pain; he's only getting what he deserves, no matter who's delivering the punishment.

> >>Pippin:
> What we're invited to think through is the larger question of valuing mercy over vengeance, of choosing love over hate. <snip>

Betsy Hp:
How?  The scene encourages the reader to cheer a Death Eater visiting vengeance (not mercy) on a schoolboy, and we're never invited to reexamine it.  At the end of the series we see Harry choose vengeance over mercy (throwing the cruciatus curse is "gallant" in those circumstances), reinforcing the lesson.  Vengeance, if it's being delivered upon those our hero thinks deserves it, is good.  Per these books anyway.

> >>Pippin:
[Harry] isn't refusing moral responsibility, he's learning that it's something people have to grow into.

Betsy Hp:
Just to put that above statement into context (because this conversation is spread out enough that I fear it's easy to loose track *g*) this is in reference to Harry's throwing the cruciatus curse.  Harry throws it to... teach... himself? something? Certainly the one teacher in the room doesn't provide any guidance.  Instead she adds her own Unforgivable to the mix (thereby also choosing to refuse any sort of moral responsibility by using another spell to accomplish her task).  So I'm very, very confused at how Harry, a boy we've already established is not prone to think back over actions taken and evaluate their merits, is learning *anything* in this scene (Except that Bellatrix was right, there is a trick to Unforgivables, but clever Harry has figured it out. *g*)  

Especially as this all takes place in the closing chapters of the seven book series and Harry has pretty much accomplished all the growing he's going to do.

Betsy Hp