Sadism or not ? McGonagall and her punishments

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 186636

> a_svirn:
> The point I was making was that "it was wrong of her, but she felt she had to do
> it" is a bad argument. The point is it was wrong, and if she felt so then she
> felt wrong. The difference between McGonagall and Umbridge not in their
> motivation but in how many lines they were willing to cross to achieve their
> objectives.
> 
> Alla:
> You mean of the same degree of badness as why do it if she does not like it argument LOL? But all jokes aside let me try to clarify myself because if you were to consider my argument to be bad, I want you to consider the exact meaning that I intended.
> 
> When I said it was wrong of her, but she felt she had to, I did not mean that her inner nature was calling to her, or something like that. I meant that she may have felt that she had no choice as a teacher. Surely we can agree that even best teachers sometimes have these problems of students misbehaving? I would be very surprised if even Sprout escaped it through years, good as she is.
> 
> So what is Hogwarts teacher to do if she needs to give punishment? 

a_svirn:
I don't see any problem with that. If students misbehave teachers assign detentions. That's standard Hogwarts practice. There is nothing inherently bad in slicing toads, cleaning bedpans, scrubbing floors or rearranging Filch's file cabinet. Sprout would make students to prune some particularly disgusting herbs, I imagine. As I've said upthread it is in itself neither degrading, nor cruel. OK, where Neville is concerned assigning one particular in itself totally innocuous detention – slicing toads – was insensitive. But then, McGonagall's protracted punishment was insensitive as well. To coin a phrase "I see no difference". Oh, wait, actually I see it. In McGonagall's case the punishment was undeserved. If she felt she "had no choice" but to punish Neville for something that was her fault in the first place, I'd say it is a perfect example of a self-serving justification. 

> Alla:
I do not know how they assign detentions, but I am thinking whatever needs to be done in school at the moment (unless you are Umbridge or Snape in my view).

a_svirn:
Now that's unfair. All detentions Snape ever assigned were entirely in accordance with school policy. He only ever assigned unpleasant chores. Under his own or Filch's supervision. What Umbridge did on the other hand was completely out of bounds. Though as I said, she totally thought she had "no choice" but resorting to such extreme measures. She even said words to that effect on more than one occasion. In the light of which I reiterate my conviction of its being a bad argument:)

> Alla:
<snip>
> But while I do not like password punishment at all, I really do not think that she should have let this one go, woudn't you agree? There is of course the irony that password was stolen from Neville and she is wrong in the first place.

a_svirn:
Considering that she was the one at fault, if she absolutely couldn't have let this one go, she should have tendered her resignation. Then the culprit would have been punished. But I would have rather suggested letting bygones be bygones instead, learning from the experience and moving on. 

> Alla: 
> Or when she caught trio off the grounds, she could not just let it go, no? If she knew that Unicorns were killed and let them go, she should be fired, but what if indeed she did not. 

a_svirn:
Then it's OK with me. But then, I generally have no problem with Snape's detentions either. I have problem with the way he bullied students in class and out, but not with the way he conducted detentions.