Sadism or not ? McGonagall and her punishments

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 186680

Good to hear from you again Shaun, we missed you smiling face,
and your intelligent comments.

I'm going to make some broad comments on your post, but I don't
believe they will be specific enough to quote you directly.

First we need to get rid of this modern notion that everybody
should feel good all the time. This is especially true of kids.
You do kids a disservice if you convince them that life is like
a Disney cartoon, where very thing is bright and happy. THAT
does not prepare them for the real world. That is my opinion,
does far more harm that good in the long run.

Next, to the idea of treating everyone the same. I put 'every
one equal' as being one notch below 'zero tolerance'. To me
'zero tolerance' means zero brains, zero effort, zero 
responsibility. It is the worst policy ever, and is alway 
doomed to ultimate failure as one size fits all, means no
size fits anyone. The list of colossal failure (and lawsuits) resulting from Zero Tolerance is unfathomable. 

Treating everyone equal means people don't have to think,
they don't have to evaluate circumstance, they don't have to
take mitigating factors into consideration. This has absolutely
nothing to do with fair punishment, or the good of the students,
and every thing to do with making the jobs of people in 
authority easier, or at least, it creates the false impression 
that things will be easier.

Side Note: Yes, I'm babbling, but I am going to bring this
back on topic soon. 

So, now let's look at McGonagall, while she is certainly strict,
she seems completely fair. She will punish a Gryffindor just as
quickly and easily as she will punish a Slytherin. Though, she
does show a slight favoritism on rare occasion, usually 
involving Quiditch. But I don't see that as a problem.

I also don't see a problem with her punishment of Neville.

Shaun suspects Neville might have a learning disability, but
to me, he seems more like an ordinary kid who just happens to
be more susceptible to stress. 

Kids in general can't remember anything. They don't remember
not to slam the door, they don't remember to pick up their
shoes, they don't remember to keep the bikes out of the drive
way. That is just typical kid behavior and has far more to do
with a lack of interest, a lack of attention, and a lack of 
forethought. BUT, those are the very things a kid needs to
function in the real world. You don't do kids any favors by
not demanding that they DO pay attention, that they DO take
an interest in important things, and if they plan to live a
long time, that they DO develop Forethought. 

In my opinion, given them flowers and gold stars is not going
to help, you must demand it of them, and you must press that
demand until they comply. And that is exactly what Snape does
to Neville. He demands the Neville pay attention and think 
ahead. 

Certainly his methods make us feel sorry for Neville, who seems
something of a sad clown to start with. But is alleviating the
'sorry' we feel helping us, or is it helping Neville? I think
it has more to do with us than Neville.

Now to Snape; does Snape have a bias. Well, yes, clearly he 
does, but we must ask why? What underlies that bias?

First and foremost, Snape must have a bias toward Slytherin 
and against Gryffindor if he is to remain in good standing with
the dormant Death Eaters. There will come a time, when he is
required to re-enter their ranks, and he must do so in good
standing. So, he must show a bias toward Slytherin.

Does he show an extra bias against Harry and Harry's friends;
again, YES. But again, what underlies that action? Certainly,
toward Harry, there is a ton of guilt and shame. Rather than
face his own guild and shame, he seeks to find fault with 
Harry. In a sense, it is not my fault that I have all these 
feelings, it is Harry fault for being a third rate wizard.

How common is this among adults, and more so children? How
many of us strike out at others, when we ourselves are feeling
strong emotions. This is all I see Snape doing.

Now Snape is not nice, but 'not nice' is a far cry from
Sadistic. Snape is often mean and within a limited context,
cruel. But teachers are not suppose to be your friends, they are
not your buddy. There are there to demand and to make sure you
achieve at a certain level, and if that means being your 
enemy to make it happen, so be it.

So some extent that seems to be what Shaun is saying, the 
job at hand is far far more important than whether you like
me as a teacher or as a person. 

Notice that Snape's student get good results, well above what
we assume is average, in the qualifications tests. Every 
student hates him, but they learn potions and learn it well,
because that is precisely what Snape demands. 

Now, yes, I do feel sorry for and sympathy with the students
that Snape bullies. But shy overstressed Neville seems to 
turn himself around in the end. The boy whose brain was
downing in stress chemical to the point of making him 
disfunction, seem to have found a way to deal with very 
stressful situation in end.

So, do you suppose he did that by facing stress and overcoming
it, or do you suppose he did that by being made to feel good
all the time and avoiding stress?

Yes, Snape's methods were unkind, but in the end, they produced
a Neville who openly challenge the darkest most dangerous
wizard of all time. 

Yes, Snape was mean and cruel, but he was also, ultimately
effective. 

Steve/bboyminn