CHAPTER DISCUSSION PS/SS 10, THE HALLOWEEN

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 188389


>>Alla (from earlier post) 
> But I mean, nobody would think this seriously, right? Everybody knows that those are silly stereotypes and people who play sports well can also be talented in many other subjects and vice versa?

>> Alla later:
> 
snip>
 What I was saying initially (or at least trying to say) is that Slytherins would never do, or at least would not typically do what Harry and Ron would do for Hermione and I still stand by this opinion.


Potioncat:
Stereotyping here, if you ask me. But I'm not throwing stones at you. Because I had an Ah Ha moment of my own.

IMHO, very few students at Hogwarts would do what Harry and Ron did. Not from Gryffindor or any other house. So it isn't as if any Gryffindor would have done the same and no Slytherin would. I don't have any idea what the numbers might be.




>>Alla:
> 
snip
 I do NOT see anywhere in the books Slytherins doing exactly what you were suggesting they would do, namely form a plan to save a person first instead of rushing into it heads on and then come back and save that person. Or I guess should I say, I do see Snape and only Snape doing that.

Potioncat:
We aren't likely to see anyone except Harry and Sirius rescuing one person. Although we did see Narcissa carry out a plan to protect Draco at risk to her own safety when she went to Snape.

Pippin and I have provided examples of Slytherins rescuing others or participating in fighting along side others, but we can't provide examples of immediate daring rescues because we weren't shown any. This is Harry Potter's story. 

> 
>> Alla:
> 
> And to me saying that people can be sorted into houses because the only one side of their personality will be predominant for them all their lives IS negative stereotyping through and through. As I said, if I think about it symbolically, I like that, if I try to think about it in realistic terms, no not really. I think she shows that some Slytherins could be courageous, no doubt about that, but considering how few of them I saw, well, no I cannot say that it overturns the image for me.
> 
> And um, where are intelligent Hufflepufs? There was Cedric who I guess must have been intelligent if chosen as Champion. And???

Potioncat:
I think it's significant that the Hogwarts Champion was from Hufflepuff. Of all the eligible students, he won out.  Are we to think he's the exception in Hufflepuff? 

I don't know if this is JRK's fault or ours. The Sorting Hat doesn't sort by lack of qualities. It sorts for qualities. Being brave and going into Gryffindor does not mean you are not loyal, ambitious or clever. It just means for some reason bravery won out. Being loyal and going into Hufflepuff does not mean you are not brave, clever or ambitious. Maybe it's the quality the student values most, or maybe it is the strongest quality or maybe the student could go to any house, but this one is the house who needs another student to balance out the quartering. 

I also think we readers have gotten things backwards. Yes, the Founders valued a specific quality and the house uses that set of values to sort, but the idea isn't to label students, but to label houses. Hermione who is brave, loyal, clever and ambitious can gladly join Gryffindor, the Home of the Brave. By being in Gryffindor she can aspire for great courage to honor her house.

I think Harry and DD, being in Gryffindor and valuing courage were surprised to see courage in Snape, and so honored his courage. A Ravenclaw (I don't remember who) saw how clever Hermione was and was surprised, and said she should have been in Ravenclaw. House members so strongly identify a value with their own house, they are caught off guard to see it in someone else.

In summary, I think Hogwarts students and readers have formed stereotypes of the houses that cloud the reality of the situation.