CHAPTER DISCUSSION PS/SS 10, THE HALLOWEEN LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188396




> Pippin:
> But it was also scary not to kill Dumbledore. Voldemort was going to murder Draco and his entire family. Seems to me Draco had to choose on the basis of something other than being scared, because he didn't have any safe alternatives.

Alla:

Or he may have been choosing basing on what seemed MORE scary at the moment and I can totally buy that the necessity to take a life seemed when confronted with it to be a scarier thing.

> 
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> >  I thought that the suspicion that they may not be Trio protects them from Voldemort. But it is obvious that we see it completely differently, to me it is another moment of Draco not being able to decide if he wants to change or not, certainly NOT a showing of nobility of heart and mercy to his enemies. IMO of course.
> > 
> 
> Pippin:
> True, they'll be perfectly safe from Voldemort when Greyback has finished eating them, but I just don't see how that helps :)

Alla:

So, wait, is it your argument that Draco was **protecting them from Greyback**? I would like some more evidence that it was Draco's intent then.

Pippin: 
> If Draco hadn't changed at all,  he would have said who they were at once. Remember when he wanted to help the Heir of Slytherin and hoped that Hermione would be killed?

Alla:

I did not say that Draco did not change at all. Of course he did. I just did not see his change as him showing a selfless courage, especially on the Tower, and neither when he would not say yes or no, and I thought you were bringing Draco as an example of him saving people Slytherins did not like, and to use Draco as such example is what I am strongly objecting to.


> > Alla:
> > 
> > That is a cool speculation, I however do not think that Regulus' plan was caused by anything else than desire to cause revenge for his servant and friend and for himself.
> 
> Pippin:
> Revenge for what? Kreacher had escaped, and as far as Voldemort knows, Regulus has done his bidding.  If Regulus still supports the Dark Lord's aims in general, why does he simply not leave the horcrux where it is and go on being a faithful Death Eater?  

Alla:

Neither do we know that he does that to help Muggles and Muggleborns and revenge for what? For the fact that Voldemort wanted Kreacher whom Regulus loves to do so in the first place and for his upcoming death maybe?


> Pippin:
> But the point was that they wanted to preserve their separate philosophies about what makes for a great wizard. Suppose they had each started their own school instead, wouldn't they preferentially admit those who had the  qualities, innate or otherwise, that they favored in their students? Many schools in the real world certainly do that. 

Alla:

Really? I am prepared to eat my socks, but please I want to know the name school who admit the students whose dominant quality is courage and god forbid they will also be ambitious, clever, hardworking, etc.

Of course there are schools who admit students on different criteria, be they super intelligent or good sportsmen or what say you. The thing is I cannot imagine a school that says that this is the ONLY thing these students can do well and this is their character trait, not something based on exams or scholarships or whatever it is

Pippin:
<SNIP>
>> So, IMO, Harry, in recognizing Snape's courage, is thinking the way that the founders did in the days when the Houses were united. JKR does want us to admire courage, of course, but to me she's not creating a world where only a quarter of the people are brave, but one in which anyone can be brave, but a quarter of the people are most impressed by bravery. 

Alla:

And IMO while JKR is definitely creating a world where anybody can be brave, in this world courage is the quality deserving the utmost respect.


Pippin: 
> It seems to me that if, as a reader, you want to fantasize about being recognized for your bravery, then Gryffindor is definitely the house for you. But if, as a denizen of the Potterverse, you are called on to show bravery, then being a Gryffindor will be of no particular help.

Alla:

Are you talking about me as a reader Pippin or hypothetical reader? Because if you are talking about me, you certainly have the wrong impression. While I definitely love selfless courage and admire people who have it and Gryffindor without any doubt my favorite house, I am sort of SAD that intelligence of house Ravenclaw and ambition of house Slytherin are not recognized more. I mean I understand if she wants to put down the ambition which is fulfilled by kicking other people out of one's way, but this is not the only ambition to have and many people achieve recognition without hurting others on the way to it.

I am too lazy to pick up my dictionary, can you tell me what is denizen means? Is it same as citizen? Thanks, never saw this word before in my life.

> Pippin:
> It is made very clear that Cedric was chosen by the Goblet as the Hogwarts champion  over all the other Hogwarts students who submitted  their names. Harry is only picked because Barty Jr. confunded the Goblet so it thought that he represented a fourth wizarding school. 


Alla:

Yes, I am aware of circumstances leading to it. I was trying to say that symbolically to me Harry is shown to be true Champion of Hogwarts, taking center stage,etc, IMO of course.