CHAPTER DISCUSSION PS/SS 11, QUIDDITCH

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 188419

> CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Quidditch <snip thorough summary>
>
> 1.  Per the narrative, "Hermione had become a bit more relaxed about breaking rules since Harry and Ron had saved her from the mountain troll, and she was much nicer for it" [US hardback, p. 181].  Please discuss the notion of being more relaxed about rule-breaking translating into being a nicer person, either in general terms or re: Hermione specifically.

Carol responds (belatedly):

Other posters have summed up the situation pretty thoroughly. Having lied to a teacher and feeling grateful to Ron and Harry, without whose rule breaking she probably would not be alive, Hermione becomes a nicer person from Harry and Ron's perspective, someone they can relate to who's not always scolding or nagging about rule breaking and is a bit more lax about rule breaking herself, assuming that there's a rule against helping other students with their homework. Whether anyone else regards her as nicer, I don't know. Probably, to use Snape's infamous little phrase, they see no difference. She's still the same "insufferable know-it-all," and she still doesn't have any friends other than Harry and Ron.
> 
> 2.  Is Harry correct that Snape made up the rule about no books outside school on the spot?  Or do you believe it truly was a Hogwarts rule?  Is this yet another example of Snape picking on Harry unfairly, or is it yet another example of the trio assuming negative things about Snape unfairly?

Carol responds:
This scene, like the "whoops!" scene already alluded to by Alla and others, can only be interpreted by the individual reader since it's never referred to again in the text. On the one hand, we have Harry's and Ron's preconceptions about Snape, and certainly Snape thought (rightly) that they were up to something and may well have been looking for something he could deduct points for, but that in itself doesn't mean that he made up the rule. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that it's a genuine rule but one that's seldom enforced. But given Madam Pince's hysterical fear for her books, I wouldn't put it past her to make that rule. And Snape, with his excellent memory, would remember it and use it for his own purposes.
> 
> 3.  <snip> Is he [Snape] the kind of person about whom one could rightfully say "I'd never put anything past him"? Or is he to be trusted never to go against something Dumbledore has asked of him?  Was JKR thinking that far ahead at this point??  Do Harry, Ron and/or Hermione ever change their basic opinion as expressed here at any point before the final reveal on Severus Snape?

Carol responds:
I'm quite sure that JKR had Snape's background and fate figured out from the first. He's a key character (without whom she would have no story, or a very different story), and she wanted to keep him ambiguous and mysterious even after showing that he was thwarting Quirrell by presenting him mostly from Harry's and Ron's point of view but also having Hermione (and Hagrid) present the possibility that he's not as bad as he seems. (Later, Hermione has more justification for this view knowing that Snape saved Harry from Quirrell and that DD trusts him.) So almost from the beginning, JKR lets both the readers and the characters choose sides regarding Snape. (Having the Slytherins, especially Draco, *like* him puts more weight in Harry and Ron's basket, as do ambiguous actions like this one, seemingly taking points from Harry for no reason. And there's no question that he's not in the best of moods given his injury and Quirrell.)

As for "I'd never put anything past him," we know better. He saves other people's lives and risks his own, and however much he dislikes Harry and suspects him (rightly) of breaking rules and being too interested in the forbidden corridor, he's protecting Harry from the moment he enters the school (and maybe earlier). And he does on one occasion threaten not to do something that DD has asked him--killing Dumbledore. He also stopped giving the Occlumency lessons when they turned into a fiasco (DD apparently understood that and didn't order him to resume them). Mostly, however, he does what DD requires of him, however unpleasant (for example, making the wolfbane potion for Lupin, whom he dislikes and distrusts, because not to do so would be disastrous) or dangerous (lying to LV and saving any life that he can despite the risk of discovery). He does what DD wants and more, and he does so with great effectiveness most of the time.
> 
> 4.  Okay, harken back.  The FIRST time you read this, did you have any inkling that the broomstick jinx *wasn't* Snape's doing, or that it *was* Quirrell's?

Carol:
I don't remember. I liked Snape and thought that he was a fascinating character, and I'm quite sure that I didn't think he was trying to kill Harry (maybe just jinx the broom so that Slytherin would win the match?). But I'm sure that I didn't figure out that it was Quirrell. I may have started to suspect Quirrell later when Snape referred to "your little bit of hocus pocus" and "where your loyalties lie," but, of course, I didn't know that Voldemort was inside the back of Quirrell's head. It's strange, though, that my initial reactions are  gone without a trace. I vividly recall reading LOTR for the first time, but I don't have any such recollection of most HP scenes and chapters ("Spinner's End" and the tower scene in HBP and my marathon read of DH excepted).

Now I have a rather complicated question of my own, but I'll quote a paragraph from SSS's summary first:

> "Harry decides, that evening, to ask Snape to return QTTA.  He heads to the staffroom, assuming Snape might be there.  When he receives no answer to his knock, Harry enters.  What he sees surprises him:  Snape, with his robes lifted to reveal a bloody, mangled leg, in conversation with Filch.  Harry overhears Snape referencing "three heads" before Snape sees him and orders him out."

When he discusses the incident with Ron and Hermione, Harry thinks that Snape must have been injured trying to get past Fluffy on Halloween night, but that can't be right. Yes, he prevented Quirrell from trying to get through the door and forced him to go back downstairs, where they joined McGonagall in finding HRH and the unconscious Troll. (Quirrell feigns fear of Trolls again.) But there's no indicattion that Snape is injured at that point, and no mention of his injury until "that evening"--that is, the evening of the day before the Quidditch match.

It's not clear how much time has passed, but the narrator mentions that they've entered November, mentions frost on the ground "every morning," and states that the Quidditch match is on a Saturday. The point-taking incident with QTTA therefore takes place on a Friday and the incident where Harry sees Filch treating Snape's wound on Friday evening. Clearly, they haven't noticed anything wrong with his leg before that point, including on Halloween night; it seems to be a recent injury. Snape's remark to Filch ("Blasted thing! How are you supposed to keep your eyes on all three heads at once?") also suggests that the injury has just happened, as does the apparent freshness of the injury--the leg is bloody and mangled. (Why he isn't treating it himself, I don't know. He clearly doesn't want Madam Pomfrey to know about it, but he should be able to heal the wound himself--plot requirements vs. consistency within the books, I guess, or else she hadn't yet envisioned Snape as a Healer.)

Harry concludes that Snape tried to get past the three-headed dog on Halloween night, but that can't be right. Several days, at least, have passed since Halloween at this point and Harry would have noticed Snape limping in Potions class if nowhere else if it had occurred then. But my question is, why did Snape try to enter the forbidden corridor at some point *after* Halloween? Why go in at all when all he needs to do is prevent Quirrell from entering? 

Of course, the scene is a set-up to make Harry and the reader think that Snape is after what the dog is guarding. But clearly, Harry is wrong not only about why Snape entered the corridor but when.

BTW, HRH have Charms on Halloween, which may help to indicate what day of the week it falls on. Halloween 1991 was on a Thursday, which could make it the night before these incidents, which happen on a Friday, but the narrative and dialogue make it sound as if several days have passed.

Has JKR just forgotten the timeline? IOW, she thinks that Snape was injured on Halloween but she shows him with fresh wounds several days later? But if that's the case, why would Snape try to get past the dog on Halloween (in front of Quirrell) and why was there no sign of an injury when he showed up in the girls' bathroom with Quirrell and McGonagall? And whether he entered the room in front of Quirrell or not (surely, he wouldn't) How would knowing how to get past Fluffy help Snape thwart Quirrell? I know it's a red herring, but red herrings need a rational explanation and I can't think of one.

Carol, who almost forgot to thank SSS for the interesting questions!