chapter discussions, SS/PS, chapter 5, Diagon Alley

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 187901


> 
> Alla:
> 
> I interpret that they did. When Gryffindors had risen in front of Harry they are facing Slytherins, not Pansy. To me that implies that Slytherins already stood up with their wands out, I think that if it was only Pansy, that's what JKR would have written.

Pippin:


You mean, Gryffindors would never draw their wands on people who were sitting quietly and not threatening them at the time? I think that particular assumption got toasted in SWM.

Canon doesn't even say that Pansy drew her wand. She points a "shaking arm" at Harry -- if she had a wand in it, she wouldn't have said, "Somebody grab him!" -- she'd have used a curse.

JKR arranges things so that Harry can't see what's going on. If he could see the Slytherins, then they could see him, and Harry would not feel protected.

Alla: 
> This however was not quite my point. As I said, I believe that at least many Slytherins supported her, however what I was talking about is that to me as a reader two years after the book was out, Pansy's betrayal is the most memorable picture that packs a huge punch.

Pippin:

But it seems to only pack that punch because you've embellished it.

 What I see, two years on,  is a mob overreacting to the provocation of a hysterical teenage girl --  Salem all over again, if you think about it. I agree, when you read the scene, it doesn't feel like that's what's happening. But then, the people in Salem didn't think they were over-reacting either. It only became clear in hindsight, with logic and perspective that were missing at the time.

Harry feels awed and overwhelmed as if the Gryffindors were standing between him and Voldemort, when all that's really there is Pansy Parkinson, who would hardly be able to aim a curse with her shaking arm even if she had a wand in it. 

The image of Slytherin that packs the strongest punch for me is Draco in the RoR, reaching up the hand that Harry once rejected, and Harry swooping down to grasp it. Is there something that a decent human being would have done to rescue Goyle that Draco didn't do?

I agree that JKR never makes Draco into someone you'd *want* to treat with kindness and respect. And people who were hoping for that as the conclusion were doubtless disappointed. 

But I've never heard even the most rabid anti-Slytherin poster allege that Draco wasn't worth saving. 

And that, IMO, is JKR's point, a much more difficult one than the one she could have made by having Draco and Harry be friends.  She wants us to see that it just doesn't makes sense to go out of our way to protect people and yet not treat them with kindness and respect, whether we want to be friends with them or not. Not unless the Dursleys are our idea of how to behave.  

Alla:
 I am not talking about Snape here and not going to discuss his actions, because whether one is a fan of Snape or not, as I attempted to argue upthread I think author was showing that Snape is not a typical Slytherin and thus I cannot judge Slytherins based on Snape. IF he was a typical Slytherin, I would totally agree that complete reversal of Slytherin loyalties was shown.

Pippin:

It's not a complete reversal, any more than Draco's view of Hagrid gets  reversed. It is shown to be one-sided and simplistic.

I agree that Dumbledore was being an ass. That is how we know he was honest. When he's kind and supportive, you can bet he is up to something with a capital Up.:) 

He's saying that emotionally immature students are disproportionately attracted to Slytherin, and maybe that wouldn't happen so much if students were sorted at an older age.  But it's a one-sided view of the House. 

Slytherins fight with their brains, as Snape told James, which sometimes means they have to go away and think rather than rush into battle. It doesn't always mean they are too immature to think of anyone but themselves.

Pippin