Snape's Psychology: WAS: More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 187908



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214@> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I fully believe that if Snape of these days would have 
> > gotten a second chance to replay that night with Dumbledore 
> > he would have definitely asked Dumbledore to save James 
> > and Harry as well, without any nagging from Dumbledore that is.
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> I still think we keep blaming Snape for the wrong thing here. We keep saying he didn't ask DD to save James and Harry together with Lily. Is it true though? Snape came to DD with a warning and a request. However, we don't know what that request was, because Snape simply didn't get to it, as DD interrupted him with questions. 
> 
> How do we know what exactly Snape intended to ask? How do we know he would have said "save Lily, don't mind her husband and son"? I suppose he could have, but how can we be sure if we are not Legilimenses :-)?
> 
> Note that DD doesn't exactly blame Snape for asking him to save only Lily. How can he, if Snape didn't ask anything at all yet? IMO, DD blames Snape for asking LV to spare only Lily, not James and Harry as well, which is an unfair and unreasonable demand. To ask LV such a thing would have been a suicide (although a "fine gesture", to use Snape's own words :-)), and what good would it have done? They would have been all dead, Snape as well as the Potters. 
> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I know that Snape didn't care about James and Harry, but we can't blame him for not asking DD to protect them, because we can't prove that he didn't intend to ask. I reread this dialogue many times, and I still can't see anything showing that Snape only asked to save Lily. This is just my opinion that I've wanted to express for quite some time :-).
>


Nikkalmati

I wonder what was it that happened here before the meeting in this remote location on the hilltop?  Snape is portrayed as confused and desperate.  He even fears DD will harm him and we see that DD does not trust this DE one inch.  So what drove Snape to this meeting?  Did he just find out that LV intended to kill the Potters?  In that case, he blurted out his request to LV to save Lily as an immediate reaction and apparently received LV's assent (possibly as a reward for bringing the prophecy to him), or had he asked LV at an earlier time to save Lily and then something happened to convince Snape that LV wasn't going to do that?  Snape at this point has no faith at all that LV will keep his word.  I wonder why.

I think that Snape's belief in LV was completely destroyed in the instant he found out that LV intended to kill the Potters, and he had no recourse other than to throw himself on the mercy of DD.  Snape thought he was risking his life by talking to DD, who might kill him on sight, so he must have given up all hope that LV would spare her. 

 Why wouldn't DD protect the Potters as a matter of course once he knew they were prime targets?  Why does he say "what will you give me in return, Severus?" (p 678 US hardcover) as though he would not do anything without a tit for tat?  (I guess we now know DD wasn't about to miss an opportunity like that.)  We don't hear what DD says when Snape answers, "anything" but Snape took up his position at Hogwarts shortly after, and we must presume he began his career as a double agent at this point.   I always assumed DD performed Legitimacy on Snape, with Snape's full knowledge, when Snape looked up at him and gave his answer, and that DD was no longer disgusted at what he saw in Snape, but he was in fact fully satisfied. 

Nikkalmati