CHAPTER DISCUSSION: PS/SS 7, The Sorting Hat

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 188047

> CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone/Sorcerer's Stone
> 
> Chapter Seven: The Sorting Hat
<snip brief summary>

> Discussion Questions:
> 
> 1. How do you think Harry's first impressions of Hogwarts differed from those of the other first year students? It seemed like nobody knew what to expect for the sorting, but do you think those who had grown up knowing about Hogwarts were surprised by other things?

Carol responds:
We're so confined to Harry's point of view that it's hard to know what the other students expect, but it does seems as if parents of Half-Bloods and Pure-bloods have for some reason withheld the details of the Sorting ceremony. OTOH, most of them know more than Harry does about the respective Houses, and those who do know about them have firm opinions about which is best. (I think that JKR is doing her best to put us in Harry's shoes and give us his uncontaminated first impressions of everything from ghosts to moving staircases.)
> 
> 2. Who is your favorite of the ghosts introduced in this chapter, and why?

Carol:
I suppose the cheerful Fat Friar, who wants to make everyone happy, even Peeves. Too bad we don't learn about the Grey Lady, but JKR is holding her in reserve. (BTW, I'm mildly annoyed by NHN's Elizabethan ruff and Jacobean plumed hat given that he died in 1492, but I suppose JKR's history is on a par with her math. If he'd really been dead 400 rather than 500 years, as indicated in the early editions of SS/PS, the clothing would be less anachronistic even though she's still combining different decades.)
> 
> 3. Is there any real-life place you thought of when you first read about the Great Hall?

Carol:
Not really. I picture a cross between a school or university cafeteria (with benches, which must be awkward to climb over if you're wearing robes that don't open in the front) and a medieval dining hall with an enchanted ceiling. I was more concerned with trying to figure out the orientation of the tables relative to the doors and other (not always consistent) details of the layout of Hogwarts.
> 
> 4. If you were being sorted, would you have a discussion with the hat like Harry, or would you go with wherever it wanted to put you?

Carol:
The thing is, we don't know whether the hat has discussions with the other students or not. Hermione says that it wanted to put her in Ravenclaw, it doesn't hesitate with her as it does with, say, Seamus or, IIRC, Neville. Most of them it sorts instantly. I think it just reads their minds and puts them in the most suitable house unless they resist. Obviously, most Muggleborns wouldn't express a preference, and if what the hat sees agrees with the child's preference (as with Draco), the Sorting is instant. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the Hat would put me in Ravenclaw, which is both where I'd belong and where I'd be happiest, so there would be no discussion.
> 
> 5. Do you think any of the Weasleys wished they were in a house other than Gryffindor?

Carol:
I doubt it. Percy does seem like a misfit, but he'd want to be in Gryffindor because his parents expected it and to live up to the standard set by his older brothers (he'd follow Bill's example rather than Charlie's in going for high marks and leadership rather than Quidditch skills). He'd have done well in Ravenclaw, but I think he must have wanted to be in Gryffindor and the hat would see a kind of courage there (he later stands up to his own family and then has the courage to apologize) and would not argue with him. I think he'd be happy with that placement and feel at home.
> 
> 6. Do you think each house is the same size? Do you think any have gotten bigger or smaller over time?

Carol:
Clearly, the Houses in Harry's year are the same size (ten students each) based not only on the number of brooms in the flying class and earmuffs in the (CoS) Herbology class and other internal evidence but on JKR's notes and the Sorting ceremony itself. I noticed that in "The Prince's Tale," she has Severus among the last dozen students, which means that there would be about eleven students to sort after "Snape, Severus," yet we know there were only four Gryffindor boys in that year (MWPP). Had there been any others, they'd have been part of the gang--after all, they let Peter in, and they couldn't have kept the Invisibility Cloak or their midnight excursions secret from dorm mates. Yet JKR has more people present at Quidditch games or the Yule Ball than is consistent with the population of the school, and Harry's fifth-year DADA class (all Gryffindors) suddenly expands to thirty students, and Trelawney's class has a lot more pouffs (sp?) and tables than needed for ten (later nine) students. 

To answer your question, I think that most of the time, the classes are quite small as evidenced by Harry's and his father's years. Otherwise, the teaching load for twelve teachers would be unmanageable. I also think that the number of students per House is similar, with the Hat "quartering" the student body (which would conveniently cooperate in falling neatly into categories). Then, again, September 1 is always a Monday in the HP books, so anything can happen.
> 
> 7. What do you think happened to Sally-Anne Perks?

Carol:
No idea. Is she left out of the list when the students are called into the OWL exam? (Somebody is.)
> 
> 8. Dean Thomas is specifically described as black in his description, but there is not a mention of race for the other students. Do you think there is racial/ethnic diversity at Hogwarts, or is Dean the only non-white student?

Carol responds:
We know that Angelina Johnson and Lee Jordan are black. Cho Chang is obviously of Chinese heritage, and the Patil Twins seem to be from India given Parvati's cobra Boggart (IIRC). I think that race is simply a nonissue at Hogwarts. No one thinks or talks about it; interracial dating is accepted without a comment. At Hogwarts and in the WW at large, what matters is not skin color but the presence or absence of magic. Even the good guys implicitly regard Muggles as inferior. Among some Pure-bloods, this prejudice extends further to include Muggle-borns whose Muggle "blood" they regard as inferior. Any prejudice that Dean, for example, experiences is the result of his assumed status (in DH) as a Muggle-born or anti-Gryffindor antagonism on the part of Slytherin when he's on the Quidditch team. The same applies to Angelina. (I don't remember anyone except Umbridge disliking Lee Jordan for any reason--though the Slytherins can't have appreciated his Quidditch commentary.)
> 
> 9. If you had the banquet of your choice magically appear in front of you, what would it include?

Carol:
Definitely not turkey or ham. Probably filet mignon with potatoes au gratin and homemade bread. (Yeah, I'd eat some veggies if they were properly cooked, but only to be a good girl.) Dessert, if I had room, lemon meringue pie. I'm not a gourmet.
> 
> 10. What did you think of Neville's account of his family's concern that he wasn't magical?

Carol:
First, "My family thought I was all Muggle" is misleading. Neville can't possibly be a Muggle unless he's a changeling. JKR should have introduced the term "Squib" at that point even though it wouldn't play a role until the next book. As for dangling a child out a window and the rest, there's really no excuse. I realize that Uncle Archie later gives Neville his toad and the Mimmbulus Mimbletonia, but he seems to hold a view similar to the one Auntie Muriel attributes to her parents' generation--if you have a Squib child, send him or her to live with Muggles (or, if you're a Black, burn his name off the family tree). Imagine a family of Muggle musical geniuses ridiculing a child and then giving him up for adoption because the music lessons they forced down his throat produced no results and add to that exposing the child to dangers that could kill him and you have Neville's family--and yet Uncle Archie seems to feel no malice toward the possible Squib. He's just not quite human in his eyes until he proves to be magical. Gran is different. She loves Neville, but she thinks that strictness and unfavorable comparisons with his parents (and his father's wand) will provide Neville with the incentive to be brave and talented like his Auror parents, especially his father. (I can't of course, read that first description of Neville's childhood without bringing in everything else I know about him, but it's just sad. Imagine the treatment a real Squib like Filch or Mrs. Figg must have received.)
> 
> 11. The first time you read the chapter, what did you think was happening when Harry had the pain in his scar while looking at Snape and Quirrell?

Carol:
I really can't remember, but I was intrigued by Snape (and vaguely curious about Quirrell's turban). That may have been my first inkling (other than comic exaggeration and the quickly overthrown misconception that Harry's parents were killed in a car accident) that the narrator was not always reliable. 
> 
> 12. What was your first impression of Dumbledore? Aside from the fact that we learn so much more about him as the series goes on, do you think that the "few words" and the way he introduces the school song are typical of him?

Carol:
I loved his quirky sense of humor and twinkling eyes. I certainly didn't think of him as a powerful figure capable of Gandalf-style anger (which I think we first glimpse in GoF). He seemed like a kindly old man, eccentric and possibly brilliant as Percy said, but I had no inkling that he was a manipulative plotter who expected other people to risk their lives. I don't think I questioned his motives for leaving Harry with the Dursleys, either.
> 
> 13. Did you think there was any greater significance to Dumbledore's statement that music is "a magic beyond all we do here"?

Carol:
No. It seemed like a throwaway line. We learn in the chocolate frog card that he likes opera and ten-pin bowling (both Muggle pursuits) but we never learn any more about it.
> 
> 14. How does the Gryffindor common room compare to the atmosphere at the school you attended?

Carol:
There's no comparison. I attended American public schools. The closest parallel would be a schoolbus, and even there, you mostly interracted with the person next to you. One day on a band trip, some of the rowdier boys started throwing red hots (cinnamon imperials). That's as close as we ever got to the chaos of a common room with the Weasley Twins in it. And, of course, there were no fireplaces or sofas at my schools, and the only beds were in the nurse's office. 
> 
> 15. What did you think of Harry's dream the first time you read the chapter?

Carol:
It was pretty clear that Harry already associated Draco and Snape, or Slytherin in general, with Voldemort. The role of Quirrell's turban in the dream turns out to be prescient on Harry's part, but I didn't know it on a first reading--only that the turban would somehow be important.

Carol, thanking Megan for the interesting questions