Wizarding Top Ten

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 188163



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Montavilla47:
> > 
> > While I think Pippin and Joey make good arguments, I have to 
> > agree with Kemper.  It is definitely in character for Hermione to
> > act for others without bothering to consult them.
> > 
> > It's also a bit illogical for her to memory charm her parents
> > unless it was *without* consent.  If they were willing to move to
> > Australia in the first place, then they could just as easily pretend
> > to be Wendell and Monica Wilkins as be charmed into believing 
> > that they are.  
> 
> Pippin:
> The Grangers are dentists, not actors. And even if they were actors, they'd still have to remain in exile and in hiding knowing that terrible things were happening at home and their daughter was in danger. Sirius couldn't stand it in the end, why should the Grangers think they could?

Montavilla47:

The Grangers don't have to be actors, either.  All they really have to do
is move to Australia.  In order for any acting skills to come into play, 
Voldmort has to locate them.  Once he does, then it doesn't matter
how good their acting skills are or how good Hermione's non-Memory
Charms are.  They're still going to be in trouble.

As for Sirius not being able to stand Harry being in danger--it was
the other way round, wasn't it?  It was Harry who couldn't stand the
thought of Sirius being in danger and thus fell for Voldemort's vision
--which was sent directly to Harry through a unique mind connection.

My honest opinion about it is that the Grangers, had they remained
in their right minds, would have been better off in an Order safe house
and not in Australia, simply because they would have been with Order
members and might have been able to get a bit of information 
through the Wizarding Wireless--as Ron was able to do.

Pippin:
> Odysseus knew he wouldn't be able to resist the Sirens, however strong his resolve, so he had himself tied to the mast of his ship. I see the Grangers' situation as similar. They know that that the best thing they can do to defend Hermione is stay safe themselves. They know they might not be strong enough or skilled enough to do it on their own. Why wouldn't they, like Odysseus, temporarily give up some of their freedom for protection?
> 

Montavilla47:

You're making a lot of assumptions about the Grangers here.  I'll admit
that I've never spent any time trying to figure out what the Grangers 
are like, and it certainly never occurred to me that they were a pair
of Odysseusus (Odyssei?).  

But I do know one thing--it was Odysseus calling the shots about
the Sirens.  And, if given the choice, I'd bet he'd never take the option
of forgetting his son and wife, even if it made it easier to sleep with--
what was her name?  Calypso? (Or Circe, take your pick...)



Pippin:
> There's no need to make the magic difficult to reverse if it's  hard to detect. The Grangers safety will depend on the Death Eaters not finding them in the first place.
> 

Montavilla47:

Exactly.  And that could be as easily accomplished without non-Memory
Charms as with them.

Pippin:
> They might be more vulnerable to a blind search than they would be if they were consciously in hiding. But  Voldemort's not going to put their image on every milk carton in the Potterverse. As we saw with Sirius, that kind of search generates thousands of false leads and you'd need an army to follow up on them.  Voldemort doesn't seem to have those kinds of resources as yet. Usually when he wants to find someone, he uses spies, informants and spells.

Montavilla47:
And, unless his resources include a bunch of spies and informants in
Australia, all the Grangers need to do is use false papers and false
names.  They don't need to be charmed as well.


> Montavilla:
> > 
> > The only people it will help would be Hermione and Harry--and
> > that's only if she's told her parents any information vital to what
> > she and Harry are up to now. 
> 
> Pippin:
> That was Sirius's mistake. He didn't think that personal information would be useful to Voldemort either. But Voldemort is an expert at psychological warfare. Anything that helps him predict how Harry and Hermione might react would be a danger in his hands.

Montavilla47:

True.  But I don't think the non-Memory charms would really help
if Voldemort got hold of the Grangers.  As someone else pointed
out, it didn't help Barty Crouch, Sr. once Voldemort got hold of
Bertha Jorkins.  In which case, the non-Memory Charms don't help
at all.

Which makes them even more useless.


> Montavilla:
> > (Although, I have to question whether a memory charm cast
> > by a young witch who "only knows the theory" would be strong
> > enough to withstand the magic of the Death Eaters in retrieving
> > memories.)
> 
> Pippin:
> According to JKR, what Hermione did to the Death Eaters was different than the magic she used on her parents. We do see different ways of hiding memories in canon. Snape puts some in the Pensieve, Slughorn disguises them -- which, BTW, disposes of the argument that modifying memories is not something wizards would voluntarily do to themselves.
> 
> In any case, that has no bearing on the Grangers' decision. They have no way of assessing Hermione's skills beyond knowing that she gets top marks at school. They'd still have to trust her judgment  if she recommended that another wizard do the job. As far as consulting older, wiser wizards, it was the oldest, wisest wizard that left the matter in Hermione's hands.

Montavilla47:

Yes, he leaves it in her hands... because he's dead! 

Pippin:
> The Grangers must either trust their daughter, whom they know is considered a knowledgeable adult in her own world,  or not. I can't prove that they'd trust her, of course. But if I had a wizard child I couldn't trust, I'd be in Australia already :)


Montavilla47:

Or, she just goes ahead and does without having to go through
the trouble of convincing them or asking any questions about her
competency.  She just waves her wand.