Bigotry in the Potterverse/Hermione and her parents

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 188212

Magpie:
> > I'm not saying that Voldemort couldn't have. I'm saying that in the book--which is the whole story--JKR wasn't going there so I think it was a bad idea to throw in something that's as disturbing to some readers as Hermione memory charming them to explain some big protection that never has any payoff anyway. 
> >   
> rick:
> I disagree.  By DH the DE's had driven the entire Weasley family into 
> hiding (except Percy), kidnapped Luna, and tried to kidnap Neville's 
> granny.  Clearly they were working in Muggleville as well, hence the 
> deaths, train wrecks and bridge collapse.  What made the Weasleys a 
> target?  Ron was with HP & Ginny was working inside Hogwarts.  What made 
> Luna a target?  She and her father openly supported HP.  What made 
> Granns a target?  Neville was carrying on HP's work inside Hogwarts.
> 
> Hg's parents didn't have to know anything for the DEs to use them to 
> torture the Trio into the open or at least to force Hg to give herself 
> up to save her parents. 
>
Carol responds:
I'm not sure what you mean about "torture the Trio into the open." At any rate, *no one* is disagreeing that the Grangers needed some form of protection. The question is whether the particular form of protection that Hermione, without consulting Harry, the Order, or apparently anyone else, chose to give them.

Was it a good idea to get them out of England where the DEs couldn't reach them? Certainly. Was it necessary to alter their memories? Not in my view. Did she obtain their consent? We don't know, but it seems improbable. Should she have asked their consent? Of course.

It doesn't really matter whether they could have provided any useful information about HRH (though I don't think they could have). What matters is whether the DEs would have gone after them if they remained (likely but not certain) and whether the means of protection was insufficient, sufficient, or over the top.

What were the alternatives to altering their memories and stripping them of their identities? Was simply getting them out of the country sufficient?

We don't need to argue about whether they were in danger. They probably were, just as the Dursleys probably were. In fact, the Dursleys were probably in *more* danger, but clearly the Order's protection was sufficient or we would have learned about it.

You seem to think (correct me if I'm wrong) that torturing the Grangers would have driven HRH out of hiding. I don't think so. HRH had few means of catching up with the outside world, only an occasional Daily Prophet or Wizarding Wireless broadcast or contact with other Wizards.

That wouldn't have been the point of torturing the Grangers. The DEs would have been after information (despite the unlikelihood that they'd learn anything important) just as Bellatrix and her gang were after information when they tortured the Longbottoms into insanity.

So, yes, by all means get them out of England. But why deprive them of their free will, their memories, and their identities? That's a huge violation of their civil and human rights, and a step that, IMO, Hermione had no right to take. It was a huge act of disrespect toward the parents without whom she would have no existence.

Does the end (protecting them and ostensibly protecting Harry) justify the means (forcing them to leave the country and forget that they have a daughter or even who they are)? Not in my opinion. Doesn't Hermione remember that in the days when laws meant something it was against the law to use magic on a Muggle? What she has done is comparable to what Riddle did to Morfin, modifying their memories for her own purposes. The only difference is that she's not framing them for a crime. She's manipulating them for her own convenience, and violating their minds in the process--a much worse form of manipulation, IMO, than anything Dumbledore did, and comparable to what he planned to do as a teenager.

And if the Imperius Curse is Unforgiveable, why isn't the spell that Hermione used (something more than a simple Memory Charm) also Unforgiveable given that it robs the victim of his or her free will and even of him/her*self*?

Carol, who still thinks that Hermione's parents will be less than happy when they find out the liberties she has taken to "protect" them