graduation/Salazar/Funeral/Multiethnic/Neville/Hermione/Luna/Much More/

[Catlady (Rita Prince]

No: HPFGUIDX 188277

Re: How Hermione modified her parents' memories  without using a Memory Charm. Surely she must have used Confundus.

Rick Kennerly wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187990>:

<< I think it's odd that we don't witness any graduation ceremonies at Hogwarts, again a symbolic passage from one state to another. >>

Used to be that UK listies were always hollering at US listies that there are no high school graduation ceremonies in the UK. No kind of school leaving ceremony except an extracurricular School Leavers Ball, described by someone who was going through it at time of writing as a crappy disco.

SeanM wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/187997>:

<< Besides [Salazar] was one of the founders of the school and he had once been good friends with Godric Gryffindor so he must not have been all bad. >>

Once a listie predicted that, because Rowling said her favorite children's book was THE LITTLE WHITE HORSE (which I still have not read yet), the ending of the Harry Potter septology would reveal that Salazar hadn't really been a bad guy in the first place. I liked that idea but it didn't happen. 

Before we heard the hat singing that Godric and Salazar had once been the best of friends (and the hat is a poet, entitled to blur the facts a little for the sake of rhyme, meter, or making a point), I speculated that Godric considered Salazar a very evil bloke and invited/persuaded him to join in to found this new school is that Godric thought that Salazar would be less dangerous on the team, where Godric could keep an eye on him, than on his own doing who knows what. 

I even theorized that Godric's whole reason for founding the school was so that Salazar couldn't find and teach and use innocent Muggle-borns.

Rick Kennerly wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188000>:

<< However, when you read the funeral scene (White Tomb) the OOP are all sitting together and then later Ms. Figg is sitting with Tom from the LC, the singer from the Wierd Sisters, and Ernie from the Knight Bus. You kinda sit with them who brought you, particularly if you're dependent on them for getting back, so how did AFigg get to HW? >>

Oh, Arabella came on the Knight Bus with Tom and the singer. She boarded the Knight Bus at the Leaky Cauldron with Tom. There wereprobably other people who came on the Knight Bus (Stan, for one!) who dispersed to sit with their friends instead of with their carpool.

Megan Real summarized PS/SS Chaper 7 in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188014>:

<< 8. Dean Thomas is specifically described as black in his description, but there is not a mention of race for the other students. Do you think there is racial/ethnic diversity at Hogwarts, or is Dean the only non-white student? >>

Dean Thomas was described as black in the American edition but not in the UK edition. Blaise Zabini was also introduced during the Sorting, but was not described as black until book 6. Fred and George's friend Lee Jordan was introduced at Platform 9 3/4 and described as having dreadlocks, and I assumed he was a white boy with dreadlocks until book 2 or 3 stated that he was black. Angelina Johnson is iintroduced later this book and book 4 or 5 mentions that she's black.

The narration doesn't specifically TELL us that Parvati and Padma Patil are of South Asian extraction, but those names combined with their beautiful long black hair worn in plaits down their backs strongly suggest it, just as Cho Chang's name suggests East Asian ethnicity. I think she's ethnic Chinese and she or her parents anglicized the name by putting the family name Chang last and the personal name Cho first. Some people have argued that her name could be Burmese or Korean. She is described as pretty, short, and black haired, but it is not mentioned that her eyes are slanted and her nose is flattish.

<< 10. What did you think of Neville's account of his family's concern that he wasn't magical? >>

Neville said his family thought he was "all Muggle", as Rowling had not yet introduced the word Squib to us, so I thought that Neville was half-Muggle like Seamus.

Joey wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188031>:

<< Hermione is a Muggle-born and has been taunted for that by the Malfoys multiple times. She is the one who has been encouraging house-elves to fight for their rights. So, I don't think she would treat her own parents or anybody for that matter in a patronizing / condescending fashion when it comes to their capabilities / rights. >>

I don't have a problem with how Hermione protected her parents. But I think that mentioning Hermione's interest in House Elf Rights is a bad argument: her first effort on behalf of House Elves was to try to trick them into freedom that they didn't want by hiding Elf Hats under piles of laundry. That was certainly patronising and condescending, as well as deceptive. I was going to say it violated House Elves' right to decide for themselves whether they wanted to be free, but I guess they actually had no such right. If they were born into slavery, their owners could free them very much against their 
choice, like poor Winky. If they were born into freedom, if there was any way they could choose to become slaves, it would require the participation of their new master.

Sartoris2 wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188055>:

<< Luna is one of Rowling's most interesting inventions and serves as a nice counterpoint to Hermione's pedantic certitude, but Luna is another outsider who never fully comes out from the cold. In the epilogue, didn't you want to find out what happened to her? For some odd reason, I hoped that she married Neville or Dean. Alas, we never discover if Luna is accepted in the wizard community. >>

Rowling said in <http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2007/0730-bloomsbury-chat.html>: "Luna became a very famous wizarding 
naturalist who discovered and classified many new species of animals (though, alas, she never did find a Crumple-Horned Snorkack and had, finally, to accept that her father might have made that one up). She ended up marrying (rather later than Harry & co) a fellow naturalist and grandson of the great Newt Scamander (Rolf)!"

*I* thought she should have married Dean, who seemed to appreciate her.

Herself said elsewhere: "Luna and Rolf's children (twins!) were named Lorcan and Lysander." Quick Quotes Quill <http://www.accio-uote.org/> has let me down by not telling me where that quote came from. 

What middle name for Lysander Scamander? Lysander Meander Scamander?

Bart wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188058>:

<< I personally had the theory that she became an Auror, capitalizing on the fact that absolutely nobody would take her seriously, so that she could go into a den of criminal wizards, declare openly that she was an Auror, and have everybody confessing their deeds to her, thinking it was a great joke. >>

That is a charming theory but I like mine better even tho' mine isn't funny. I think she should have learned wand-making and inherited Ollivander's business. Her weird insight would help her match the wand to the customer, and her innate goodness would come up in some unconscious way of making wands that influence their users to be good, or anyway less bad.

Augusta wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188061>:

<< Surely the definitive reference book on the school would have covered the Sorting Ceremony, wouldn't it? >>

The wizarding adults were all trying to keep the Sorting Ceremony secret so it would surprise the new first-years, and possibly to tease adults who had gone to some other wizarding school.

Geoff wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188161>:

<< Courses which are specifically geared to an area such as catering or business skills or motor mechanics, for example, will usual run as continuation courses from ordinary secondary schools and take place in Colleges of Further Education - either post-Year 11 or post-Sixth Form. They are sub-university and may either act as a precursor to taking a full degree or issue vocational qualifications in their own right. >>

Now remind me what is Year 11. Is it Fifth Form? GSCE year?

Potioncat wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188173>:

<< I have a question. McGonagall tells the first years, "Each house has its own noble history and each has produced outstanding witches and wizards." Did her speech convince you after what you had already read? Did you think one house was better? What do you think now? Do you think McGonagall was sincere? >>

I believed her statement then and now. I never doubted that she was somewhat sincere. On one hand, McGonagall, like Harry and the author and most readers, is certain that Gryffindor is the best House with the noblest history and has produced the greatest witches and wizards. (Best-known, anyway: Gryffindor heroes are great at publicity. I didn't realize this detail way back then.) On the other hand, McGonagall knows the history of great witches and wizards from the other Houses. Hermione might know it, too, from her extensive reading.

SSSusan replied in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188179>:

<< We might have to look back FARTHER or DEEPER to find the nobility of Slytherin, given how JKR has drawn the House in the 20th century >>

Or there is room in the wizarding world to argue about what is 'noble', such as young Tom Riddle's allegiance to old Salazar's alleged 'noble goal' of ethnic cleansing.

Rick Kennerly wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188189>:

<< But other than [Auror training], there doesn't seem to be any canonical evidence of upper level education in the WW. >>

One more example. In OoP when they visit Arthur in the hospital, the sign on the door of his ward / semiprivate room says "Healer in Charge: Hippocrates Smethwyck, Trainee Healer: Augustus Pye." IE: Healers are trained at St. Mungo's.

Carol summarized PS/SS Chapter 8 in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188205>:

<< 3. Why do you think that Quirrell's turban and classroom smell like garlic? Did his blushing and confusion when Seamus asked him about fighting off the zombie arouse your suspicion? >>

I was perfectly gullible about poor stuttering Professor Quirrell being excessively afraid of vampires, and all I suspected from his confusion is that he was lying (like the later Lockhart) and had never actually fought a zombie or met an African prince.

Montavilla47 wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188207>:

<< (Hey... wait a second. How did Voldemort pry Dumbledore's wand from his cold, dead hands if the body had burned up?) >>

I'm under the impression that the magic flames constructed the white tomb instead of destroying the corpse.

Julie wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188265>:

<< It may be that Snape has some sort of degree or certificate identifying him as a "master" level potioneer (if that's an actual word!). >>

I don't think 'potioneer' is an actual word but it IS a wizarding word. Remember  when Slughorn first met Hermione, he asked her if she were "related to Hector Dagworth-Granger, who founded the Most Extraordinary Society of Potioneers?"

I agree that Snape may have a degree or certificate as a Master Potioneer as well as 'potions master' means 'potions teacher'.

I've always believed that there is a Guild of Potioners (MY idea what the word should be) and being an apprentice in that guild is roughly equivalent to being a grad student in Muggle university, and that Snape was an apprentice in the Potioners' Guild in those years when he was a working Death Eater. If it's normal to make Journeyman in two years, with his abilities, he could have done it in one. He could have become a Master in his Guild while teaching at Hogwarts. 

I always imagine that there is ongoing conflict inside the Potioners' Guild between the apothecaries and researchers, in which the apothecaries complain that they pay all the money to support the Guild while all the honorific titles go to the researchers, and the researchers complain that those mere shopkeepers don't deserve to called Masters just because they can make complicated potions correctly without looking at a book.

Anyway, that guild could be named Most Extraordinary Society of Potioneers just as easily as it could be named Worshipful Company of Potion Makers. 

There's a thing that I can't quite remember. Once I viewed a book of illustrations of the heraldic achievements of some of the Livery Companies of London, which used to be guilds. It said that IIRC twelve of the companies had gilded grills of the helmets sitting on top of their shields for the crest to stand on which technically they are not entitled to, not being peers of the realm, but these few livery companies had a special title that was by custom treated as if it gave them that right. And right now it is completely irritating to me that I can't remember that special title.